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Case 580K

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Willie B, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I looked at a 580M yesterday, 10 hours on the road round trip. It was clearly fraud. The machine was far rustier than the pictures showed, fenders & floor were nonexistent under the upholstery.
    Hydraulics were useless. Hoe, loader, stabilizers non functional. No brakes. I didn't buy it.

    My son & I have been discussing the 580K backhoe. It's a functional hoe, but is incredibly jumpy. Especially in the swing. If I swing while using any other function, when the other function ends, the swing takes off like a rocket. In general it is a one function at a time machine.

    He's convinced there is a problem with this machine.

    Anybody have experience with the K? Are they terribly jumpy by design?

    Question 2: Does anybody know of a K extend a hoe with hydraulic thumb? I had a homemade one, cylinder rod bent. I want to redesign. I'd like to copy a proper thumb.
     
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  2. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    I know it has a ductile iron boom on it clearly marked with Do Not Weld on it. For that reason I would never have one. It is not unusual from what I have read on HEF that they fail.
    I was looking at these photos just the other day.
    Sadly there has been several discussions on HEF inquiring about repairing them.
    I read on a welding forum I am a member of that the pros recommend not wasting any time welding one.
    Boom0.jpg Boom1.jpg Boom2.jpg Boom3.jpg
     
  3. Swetz

    Swetz Well-Known Member

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    I am glad that I read this...Being in the market to purchase a backhoe, I will certainly steer clear of a 580K. Don't want to have to replace a boom and may want to add a thumb.
     
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  4. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    My post probably wasn't the info Willie was looking for but I just thought any one thinking of buying one should be aware of the poor choice Case made for the boom material.
    As a result, used booms are scarce and very expensive. If a person needing one can find one.
     
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  5. JBrady

    JBrady Active Member

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    It is not just the K series that has ductile iron booms. The L series does as well for sure and I think even the M series does. I'm positive that my 590 Super L has this type of boom. When you consider they (Case) are at least in the top 3 or so of TLB manufactures and the tens of thousands of Case backhoes in the world, I think it is a pretty solid design. My machine is an extendahoe and I believe the outer sleeve of the dipper is not a casting so you could still weld a thumb on if you wanted to.
     
  6. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    I must admit when the ductile booms were first released I, as did most other folk thought that this was a bad idea.
    However, the only boom failures I have ever seen on any of these models (maybe 2 or 3) have always been associated with operator carelessness.

    Considering the many thousands of these booms that are in use around the world - the percentage of failures - would hardly be of any concern to the bean counters at CNH....:rolleyes:
     
  7. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    My first post didn't make it clear, I bought my first 580K 15 years ago, this is my second. Both have been TOO jerky!
    I don't POP the backhoe into transport mode, I use a stabilizer to gently push it up. I'm past that hazard.
    The unpleasant function of the hoe, I have managed to work through. My son, God gifted with an ability to jump on any machine, and perfect operating it immediately, is frustrated with its jerky function.

    A couple operators I'd rate among the top 10% worldwide are alarmed about this hoe. They cant make it move smoothly.

    We do the local annual antique tractor pull. I set block on the sled. Moving slowly enough, I haven't smashed anybody's hands. A few self described "experts" have jumped into the cab and there have been close near misses.

    It's my machine, I want to defend it, but it is frightening with the unpredictable nature of sudden movement.

    I had an older John Deere, it was exponentially more predictable.
     
  8. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    K, L & M I've seen have ductile booms. My two booms span total 10,000 hours use without damage. Once they break they can't be welded. Broken booms are not common. Dippers are also ductile, but less prone to break. On extenda hoes the outer member is steel, not prone to breakage & very weldable.
     
  9. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    Regarding the 580K hydraulics -
    Is the amount of cushioning similar on each side of the swing?
    There are supposed to be restrictors #16A/B fitted under each fitting at the A & B ports of the swing section - do you know if these are still in place?

    580K swing circuit.png
     
  10. Tags

    Tags Senior Member

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    I had a K that I bought from a friends father that I had worked for in high school, I grew up running that thing, the original owner hated the hoe, it was jerky as can be, mostly used it as a wheel barrow, load and unload a small screening plant and to leave on jobs to load materials. When I bought it from him Im fairly certain it still had the original teeth on the hoe bucket, machine had 3000 ish or so hours. When I picked it up he handed me a box O parts with it, inside that box were some small packages from CNH that were kits meant to go into the swing valves to slow down/stop the jerkiness with the swing, I never installed them and sent them down the road with the machine. Someone must know a part number for those kits....
     
  11. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

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    Is the issue regarding jumpiness involve the two stick controls, or is it another arrangement such as with the foot pedals?
    The two K's that I have run are two stick and the swing is not considered to be jumpy.

    I have noticed there is a cam and a little roller wheel that is involved with the timing, some of the parts can be worn and perhaps that may help....
     
  12. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Those restrictors are available with a choice of two different size orifices.
    1/8 inch and 9/64.
    The service manual makes no reference to them that I could find.
     
  13. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    My 580K seems to have gotten jerky-er over the 20 years I've had it. Do those restrictors wear out ?
    Besides the swing, the other hoe functions seem slightly jerkier, too especially after it warms up. I was just thinking I'd lost my touch with it after having an excavator for a while :)
     
  14. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Regarding the 580K hydraulics -
    Is the amount of cushioning similar on each side of the swing?
    There are supposed to be restrictors #16A/B fitted under each fitting at the A & B ports of the swing section - do you know if these are still in place?

    I'm not completely clear. Are both swing cylinders supplied by only these two ports on the backhoe valve? Do two hoses go between backhoe valve and proportioning valve? Then branch to both ports of each cylinder?

    Many years ago the swing wouldn't go all the way to one side, but full speed to the other. I went through the proportioning valve then. Put a bunch of parts both internal to the valve & in the linkage. It is equal now and swing slows as it approaches either stop.

    When swinging along with any other function, and that function ends, the swing takes off like a rocket.
     
  15. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I've had two 580K. One was three lever, non extend a hoe. I couldn't function with it, so I swapped hoes, and controls. This is extend & joystick control.
     
  16. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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  17. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Thanks for the help. I've been through the proportioning valve. It is now equal, and cushions the swing extreme left or right. The flow restrictors is intriguing. I'll dismantle ASAP. Might they wear out?
     
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  18. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    I don't know if they can wear to larger opening. About all you can do is remove them and measure the orifice opening. Maybe use a high quality drill bit to measure them.
    I wonder which size Case installed at the factory. And why are there two different sizes ?
     
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  19. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Restrictors were once available in 1/8 and 9/64 sizes depending on swing cylinder sizes. Case lists them as no longer available.
     
  20. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Both sizes are listed as available on Messick's website.
    Messick's ----> https://www.messicks.com/search?q=D141726

    Don't bother looking at Coleman's website. I tried to purchase some bushings from them last monday and they sent me an email that they refunded my money because they are no longer a Case dealer.