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Case 580E steering cylinder disassembly

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by rockbust, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. rockbust

    rockbust Member

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    Hi, I have a bad leak in my steering cylinder on my 580 super e 4x4. I removed the cylinder but can not get the piston rod out.
    1. I removed the first thin retaining ring that went in a groove. (see my attached photo)
    2. I tried to remove that white Teflon under the s nap ring. Broke some small pieces off but it will not come out.
    3. I read somewhere that this part the first snap ring is in should be tapped down to expose a second snap ring. I tried banging this down to the point where it is getting dented hacked up.

    Can anyone please offer any advice how to get it apart. CYLINDER.jpg
     
  2. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Here ya go Rockbust ! Right out of the service manual. steering.png
     
  3. siganens

    siganens Member

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    france
    Hi Rockbust,
    Funnily enough I did one of my steering cylinders today.
    Take out top snap ring
    Remove teflon packer, I just used a small sharp screwdrivm
    er between cylinder wall and teflon packer and levered it out........it is quite tough
    You will then find a second snap ring below the teflon packer, mine broke taking it out but there was a new one in the kit of parts.
    Having removed second snap ring, everything pulls out of the cylinder

    Good luck.
     
  4. rockbust

    rockbust Member

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    Thank you all for the info. I just couldnt get that teflon packer out. I was finally able to drive down the Gland with a piece of chrome closet pole that fit perfect. That piece that goes inside the gland is a pain. I squished i in half and put a piece of thin wire around it. then folded it again to squeeze it in. first try the o ring popped out in one spot, second try worked.
     
  5. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    I just wanted to add to this thread for dummies like me who have never done this before and don't have a service manual or other directions

    The teflon spacer and the top snap ring do not come in the standard case seal kit and must be ordered separately which I was not aware of when I destroyed the old spacer trying to get it out.
    When my seal kit and the directions- reproduced from the case service manual- came, it says to remove the outer snap ring and push the gland 1 inch into the cylinder at which point the spacer and inner snap ring should come out more easily and the spacer does not have to be destroyed (like I did charging ahead like a bull in a china shop)

    That single teflon spacer costs about the same as the entire seal kit so it is worth saving if possible, but on an older machine it would be wise to order both the kit and spacer since things may not always go smoothly .

    I personally, (and the guy who sold me the kit,) think the spacer should be part of the seal kit, and perhaps a top mechanic on a newer machine working under ideal conditions can get it out easily without damage, but I really couldn't push the gland in even after the spacer and snap rings were all removed. In fact, I used the live hydraulics to push the piston and gland out of the cylinder (I had to turn the wheel quite a bit, even back and forth before it would budge.)
     
  6. franklin2

    franklin2 Well-Known Member

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    I just did one of my steering cylinders on my 480C. This actually turned out to be more difficult than the larger cylinders on the hoe and the front end loader. Just like small lawnmower tires, being a small cylinder makes it more difficult.

    The most difficult part was getting that seal in the groove up in there, the one the other poster said he had to "squish" in half. Yep, that is really the only way it will go in, and the first time I did it, the weather was a little cold and I was working outside. After it was all done it still leaked.

    So after debating on just getting a whole new $80 cylinder, I decided to try again and got another seal kit. This time I warmed up a cup of water in the microwave and then put this problem seal down in the hot water. This made it more flexible, and I also brought everything inside to warm it up. Things went better and it's working ok now, but you still have to torture that seal pretty good to get it in. I can't see them doing this all day long at the factory, but I think I discovered how they do it. This groove we are trying to put this seal in is made up on one side by a brass guide bushing. I bet when they assemble these at the factory, they slide the seal in place and then press the bushing in behind it.
     
  7. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    Where do you get a new cylinder for 80$? maybe you have a different system, my cylinder cost 192! although after I had ordered it I saw another for sale for 145.

    With the piston rod out of the cylinder and the end nut removed, I had the misfortune to have to "tap" on the piston to try and remove it. Someone had used loctite or something similar to keep the nut on, and it didn't want to budge (although the nut came off pretty easy) One thing and another, I guess my frustration level went beyond common sense, and before I knew it the soft aluminum piston was deformed by my "gentle" taps.

    Anyway, I broke down and bought a new cylinder. A new piston would cost 65+, the spacer another 20+, and the aggravation of trying to make it all work, priceless. 192 was a bargain when it came to peace of mind and moving on.

    chalk it up to experience and move on.
     
  8. catskinner 10

    catskinner 10 Well-Known Member

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    Retired Operator/Master Mechanic 48Yr Member IUOE
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    Sometimes you have to use a little heat to get the gland to move.
    They can rust in.
    Always use a little heat on the piston bolt or nut because they
    Always have a little Lock-tight on them from the factory and you should do
    The same on reassembly.
    At least with Case anyway.
    Tom
     
  9. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    I was in the middle of using heat and tapping when I suddenly noticed the damage I was doing. I might have salvaged it, but quite honestly the whole project had just gotten too complicated, and throwing money at it seemed a lot easier. The boom cylinder was easy compared with this.

    I do have a few tricks for the next steering cylinder--so maybe that will be a bit easier.

    I definitely reinforced the idea of taking it slow and reading before starting--then rereading, sleeping on it, and reading again in the morning. (having an actual service manual now helps )
     
  10. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    thought I should update this, bought a new steering cylinder and installed it, no sweat, then it was leaking again after 15-20 hrs of machine time.
    got a replacement and it started leaking after 15 hrs and another re[placement is on the way, but I have a feeling my hydraulic fluid may be the problem.

    It has always been milky, and my friend with much more experience says that's no big deal, but reading specs online indicates it is indeed a very big deal. Also, the 303 tractor supply fluid which I've been adding (about 10 gallons so far) is not up to specs of tch fluid.

    So yesterday I bought 30 gallons of traveler premium from TS and have plans to do a complete fluid replacement. I also have a filter on order, and just broke the drain plug free, but haven't yet started the draining process.

    I thought I would lift everything as high as possible, turn off the engine, open the drain plug, and when most of that fluid is out, one by one lower the different parts to squeeze out as much fluid as possible from the rest of the system. Any suggestions?
     
  11. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Bob ; you have questions in two threads and it gets confusing. I posted in the other thread you are wasting good oil the way you are going now.
    There is a definite procedure for doing the flush properly. I cannot tell you how important that is. A service manual is a real asset well worth the money if you are going to this kind work.
    Here is a couple of the links for the hydraulic flush procedure.
    https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=14595
    https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=19687
     
  12. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    thanks Tinkerer, I read through those flush procedures, and they gave me some good alternatives to get a substantially better flush. I don't want to burn out the pump, and I don't want to be too fussy about every drop of contaminated oil either. I just bought this machine in the spring and this whole thing is more than I wanted to do, all I wanted to do was dig and landscape, not become a case mechanic. oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound, lets see how bad the oil looks after working a few days with the 50% change.
     
  13. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    The appearance of the oil to your eye is no indication of better oil, Bob. Your pump will still be damaged from the contamination. It may take a bit of time.
    Believe me when I flushed mine I had to swallow hard at the amount of cash I spent. I think a replacement pump for my machine is in the neighbor hood of $1600.00.
    I would do it again in heart beat if the looked milky.
    But it won't, someone had dumped contaminated oil in the tank.
    There is no other way for it to enter the system.
     
  14. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    Hi Tinkerer,
    I get that my eye won't see the level technically considered too much water in the oil, and getting the oil to at least not appear milky is only a starting point in the clean up. I'm thinking about all sorts of other procedures in the follow up- follow through on the rehab of the hydraulic system. But I always come back to the active filter machine that hooks into the filter supply lines and then cleans everything out of the oil before recycling it, case outlines a procedure going from one cylinder to the next to access all the bad oil and then purifying it. I'm going to ask around to see if I can find someone with one of these machines and find out if they make house calls.

    https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Hydraulic-Transfer-Filtration-Systems/dp/B072FR1LWT

    this is actually what the service manual recommends.

    I just spent over two hundred dollars on oil and will likely spend a couple hundred more before I'm done-- I get that this is something I ignore at the risk of costing even more in money time and energy... I could spend a couple thousand if it gets to ruining the pump
     
  15. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Bear in mind you still have a substantial amount of 303 hydraulic oil in the system.
    That oil is unacceptable for use in a 580E.
    You really need to do the total flush with Case TCH oil or a house brand that meets the TCH specs.
    You can download the service manual for a 580SE here ---->
    Most info is the same for your E series.
    http://files.minnpar.com/partbooks/... E Loader Backhoe Tractor Workshop Manual.pdf
     
  16. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    I get a 404 file not found error for that link-- but I already bought a manual on ebay. I do plan to do another more complete flush on Monday (or when it stops raining after I get the new filter). In the meantime I'll do a little light running to mix the oil in there, and do some heavy thinking about how best to proceed. I like the idea of the filter by pass, keeping the reservoir full of fresh oil and systematically emptying each cylinder into the system, replacing it with fresh oil.

    It's been a bit difficult to totally wrap my head around the complexity of the system, but I keep reading and rereading comments here and other resources to try and get a better handle on it.
     
  17. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Just to clarify the cylinder flush --- the open fitting on the cylinders that the contaminated oil is being forced out of are dumped into a container of some type.
    The flush is a fairly simple operation. Cylinders that work in pairs are flushed at the same time. Except the swing cylinders. Individual cylinders such as boom (some booms have 2), dipper and bucket are done one at a time.
    Many HEF members will give you all the help you will need if you decide to do it and have questions.
     
  18. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    I understand the basic principle of the flush, but I will certainly keep this resource in mind when I'm actually ready to get started. I have close to 40 gallons of fresh premium tch grade oil ready to go and a filter due in the mail on monday.
     
  19. permaculture bob

    permaculture bob Member

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    I understand the basic principle of the flush, but I will certainly keep this resource in mind when I'm actually ready to get started. I have close to 40 gallons of fresh premium tch grade oil ready to go and a filter due in the mail on monday.