Case 580CK finally started but has some problems

[MrKool]

Ok, with much help from nova481, I was finally able to get this beast running today, but now I find the problems.

Seems one of the main backhoe swing cylinders is leaking like a faucet. (see attachment)

Also, the steering doesn't work, steering wheel spins fine but wheels never move, it has fluid in the pump,

so I've got some more checking and testing before I pay the man, but so far not bad, the motor sounds good

for having sit for 10 years

Also, the backhoe controls and tranny shifter were almost rusted in place and almost gave up when they broke free thanks

to PB Blaster and WD40.

 

[Tinkerer]

If you want to reseal them your self. Those swing cylinders are fairly easy to reseal without removing them. Be sure to look for a small lock screw where the gland and cylinder barrel mate. After you pull the rod and piston out of the barrel, reattach the rod to boom so you can remove the nut (or bolt) on the end. If you would rather take the cylinder somewhere (hydraulic repair shop) to have the resealing done, disregard the dis-assembly advice.

 

[Bill Smith]

If you don't mind me askin , how much for the machine

 

[MrKool]

Thanks Tinkerer, that's what I need to know, it has a few other one leaking, just not as bad, also going to need some hoses, so after posting this last night,

I started checking into the cost of cylinder repair and making my own hoses, and not having to remove this one from the machine makes repairing it much better.

Hi Bill, for years I'd been looking at this hoe sitting in the backyard rusting away, never being used, and every year I'd ask the old guy what he wanted for it, 10 years ago it was $10,000,

5 years ago it was $7000, so while helping the daughter with her furnace the other day, asked her to call him and see how much for the old backhoe, he said $4000.

So I cam home and cleaned up my old Ford 3500 Ind. tractor with loader and bush hog and put it on Craigslist for $4500, then sold it along with a Hay spear for $4000,

since then, I've been over there 3 time now working on it to make sure it's worth $4000, because already having owned a tractor with leaking cylinders and almost burning up

the power steering pump, these machines can run into some big dollars in repairs.

The main reason I'm buying it is for Flood Protection, I live about 1000' from a normally dry creek, west fork of the Stones River, but in Oct. 2009, we had 8" of rain and

my 32 year HVAC business was almost ruined, as the water was 4 ft deep in my shop, which was full of ductwork and heating/cooling equipment and tools and mowers, golf cart, pressure washer, etc.

And that made the mortgage company try to force me to get flood insurance, but it never reached my house.

So I'm planning on digging a ditch between me and that creek so it doesn't flood me out next time.

 

[Tinkerer]

If you do repack the hydraulic cylinders yourself,be careful to not allow the new composite packing's on the piston to make any contact with the barrel threads. I found out the hard way what can happen. Like take it apart and repack it again. I now make a plastic sleeve from a one gallon milk carton. Big enough to cover the lower half of the barrel threads and extended long enough out the barrel so I can hold it from sliding into the barrel while inserting the rod and piston assembly.

 

[MrKool]

Now that's interesting, what happens to the packing when it touches the barrel threads?
And is that true for ANY cylinder?
Maybe that's what happened to a power steering cylinder I tried to repair awhile back, after replacing the seals, it lasted about 2 weeks before leaking again.

Looks like some Allen head or Torx screws holding the cap on, or does it un-screw from the barrel like some of the others I've worked on?

 

[Juskatla]

The swing cylinders are subject to bent rods on this machine due to design and operator abuse. Once the rods are bent, the gland packing will leak pretty badly. If you remove the cylinders, check the rods for any bend before you do any other repair. I had both of mine rebuilt at a hydraulics shop where they put new stainless rods, honed the tube bore and replaced all the packings. I did the bushings while they were off and replaced all the hoses and bolts for the swing bearing mountings. Several years now and no more leaks, tight and will give me years more service. Cost for both cylinders a couple of years ago, $1400 CDN.

Jess

 

[Tinkerer]

The threads are sharp as razors and they will shave the packing material. Slide the packing about 3/8 or 1/2 inch across the threads and you have a problem.

 

[MrKool]

That makes sense, I'll be sure and be as careful as possible.

Now to the steering, I checked the fluid level before starting it and it was very low, just below the bottom of the dip stick.

But I really just needed to see if it would fire up because if it didn't run, it wasn't worth much to me.

But after hitting the air intake with either, then hitting the starter a few times, it started up and kept on running, noticed swing cylinder pouring fluid

and no steering, like the steering wheel spins, so shut it down and retrieve some hydraulic fluid and filled up the power steering pump, but didn't have enough juice or diesel fuel

to get it running again.

So, my question: did I damage the power steering pump?

 

[sheepfoot]

Could just have air or a packing is bad in one of the steering cylinders. Bad packing would be my first choice due to age and history of those cylinders.

 

[MrKool]

Thanks sheepfoot, went there today to try to get it ready to bring home, an hour away, and after filling the pump with oil, it's starting to wake up and turn the wheels.
but you're right, the right side cylinder is leaking some, so that's number 3 I'll have to fix.

My immediate problem is the swing cylinder leaking like a faucet, I put 5 gallons of hyd. fluid in it and fired it up, to check steering, but I also needed to move the hoe back to center,
but with it leaking out so fast, I can hardly move it 3" before it stop and it's empty.

Also, it's coming out looking like milk and that's not good, looks like I'm in for a major rebuild job and a cheap place to buy Hyd fluid, come Spring

 

[Truck 505]

If I am not mistaken thats 580C not a CK

 

[Tinkerer]

MrKool, If the hydraulic oil has water in it and it leaks out that fast, catch in a clean bucket then filter it through a paint strainer and reuse it. You are going to have to determine how the water got in the oil. Then you will need to do a complete flush and refill of the entire system. Be careful though if there is tooo much water in the oil you could damage your hydraulic pump. Here is a link to thread that will guide you through the flushing procedure. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...80SK-Hydraulic-Flush-Question&highlight=flush Be sure to read the links posted in that thread.

 

[MrKool]

Yeah Truck, it's a 580C not a CK, just thought it was since it's got "Construction King" on the canopy.

Tinkerer, the oil is all out, so my next job is to repair the swing cylinder seals and flush the whole system and fill with fresh oil.

So, when I go back up, I'll need Cylinder Seals, a Spanner wrench and a cheater bar to repair the swing cylinder, and an air compressor to blow out the lines and fill the flat tire.

I'm a little confused as to how much fluid I'll need to get and what filter or filters I'll need to get, so if someone can point me to the page in the service manual

or just give me the numbers, that would save me some time.

Probably going to be an all day job getting it cleaned up enough to keep from damaging the pump(s) while I attempt to drive it around and getting it ready to bring home.

On another note, I'm going to have to replace most of the hoses on this machine, so should I invest in some hose and connector making equipment?

Thanks

 

[nova481]

hi mrkool

Glad I could help with your project
Wait till you see what your getting into with these old machines but it is fun working on them especially if your successful
When your ready to repack your steering cylinders the members here were a great help when I did mine
below is the link

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/...ering-cylinder

Good luck

Ron

 

[spitzair]

I recently resealed a main boom cylinder on a 580B and it wasn't a bad job at all, took at the most 2 hours. I'm not sure if the swing cylinders are the same but the boom cylinders came with either a 1 or 2 piece piston and the seals are different... You'll need a pin wrench (I think that's what it's called) to take the head off the cylinder and a big wrench to take the nut off the rod and piston assembly. Also, before you take the head off the cylinder look for a lock, if I remember right on the main boom cylinder I did it was a little lock nut that required an allen key to get out. As for hose making equipment, I sure wish I had some! My local parts shop is great at making hoses and such but it sure would be nice to just be able to wander over to the machine and cook up a new hose instead of driving into town 30 minutes one way...
Keep up the good work and thanks for the pictures

 

[nova481]

let me try the steering cylinder link again

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?23196-Case-580C-steering-cylinder

 

[MrKool]

Alright, I've checked out the steering cylinder and should not be a problem, but the swing cylinder maybe a different story.

Been checking around for the best deal on some swing seals and found these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1543273C1-Case-Cylinder-Seal-Kit-450-B-550E-G-580-780-B-850-B-C-D-E-1150B-C-G-/220877539957#vi-content

And for steering seals here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A44644-Case-Backhoe-Loader-Steering-Cylinder-Seal-Kit-480-480B-480C-580B-580C-/320821163742?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item4ab26e76de

Here a pic of the Model and Serial tag so you fine folks can help make sure I'm looking at the right seals.








Really appreciate all your help, if not for you guys, I wouldn't even think about buying this machine and I'm still unsure about it.

 

[Tinkerer]

I don't know how much oil you will need. It depends on how much you will use if you do the complete flush. When you flush the lines,pay close attention as to when the clean oil starts to flow. If you have someone to help that would cut down on losing some of the new oil. If it were me I would buy 25 gallons to start. Don't worry about buying too much oil,these old machines use a lot of it, at least until you replace a lot of blown hoses. I always have 10 gallons on hand for replacement. If I remember correctly, Alaman said do-it yourself hose making is common in AU. But he is a professional serviceman and most likely has an inventory of hoses and fittings. I know I did some checking on that and decided it wasn't for me. Takes too long to get what is needed. Here is link to the parts book. Verify that it is the correct model. http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr49912ag125752

 

[orville]

Mr. Kool, A few years back I rebuilt all the cylinders on my 580CK except for the boom cylinder, and the loader tilt cylinders. I bought all the kits from Case and did not think they were over priced.