Case 580c fuel at injectors but will not run.

[Pearce Graham]

Hello all, new to the forum and looking for insight into this problem. Tractor started loosing power and then shut off. I thought maybe it was out of fuel so bought 10 gallons of diesel and put it in it. still nothing so I took the line off on the bottom of the tank and with the petcock open, no fuel came out. Got my air pig and blew into the bottom of the tank and got fuel flowing again. Took fuel filters off and they were full of rusty watery crap from the tank. Changed filters and bled air off the fuel system. She fired right up and ran better than ever for a few minutes and then shut off again, now it will not start but I have fuel at the injectors and light smoke from the exhaust while trying start it. My question is, could I have gotten trash past the filters and into the pump causing a low pressure condition while still getting fuel to the injectors? Return side glass ball check and spring are fine and the inlet side screen is clean. Tank has been drained and cleaned with all new diesel fuel. If it is just a coincidence that the pump went out at the same time as a fuel supply issue, what are the symptoms of a faulty injection pump? Is there a way to check output pressure of the injection pump? This system utilizes a Stanadyne DBGFCC431-64AJ. There is no lift pump in this system.

 

[jimg984]

check return line and fittings from inj. pump to storage tank MUST have flow at the storage tank

 

[Pearce Graham]

check return line and fittings from inj. pump to storage tank MUST have flow at the storage tank

Will do thank you!

 

[Delmer]

Anything is possible, and with rusty water in the filters, I would NOT call it a coincidence if the pump locked up.
To confirm, you have fuel at the injectors, does that mean you have the steel lines from the injection pump loose at the injector, and they are squirting fuel, or at least pulsing fuel when you crank the engine with the throttle at high? Does the engine seem to crank with enough speed? have you been charging the battery through this whole time.

It would not be normal for the injection pump to lose pressure and still pump, typically it would lock up and not pump from sudden contamination. More likely might be plugged injectors from a small bit of rust getting by the filters. That could explain the bit of smoke you get while cranking but not quite starting.

If it spurts fuel at the injectors, you could remove and test the injectors. Or tighten them back up and give it a tiny shot of starting fluid while cranking to see if it will catch.

 

[Delmer]

OOPS

 

[Pearce Graham]

Anything is possible, and with rusty water in the filters, I would NOT call it a coincidence if the pump locked up.
To confirm, you have fuel at the injectors, does that mean you have the steel lines from the injection pump loose at the injector, and they are squirting fuel, or at least pulsing fuel when you crank the engine with the throttle at high? Does the engine seem to crank with enough speed? have you been charging the battery through this whole time.

It would not be normal for the injection pump to lose pressure and still pump, typically it would lock up and not pump from sudden contamination. More likely might be plugged injectors from a small bit of rust getting by the filters. That could explain the bit of smoke you get while cranking but not quite starting.

If it spurts fuel at the injectors, you could remove and test the injectors. Or tighten them back up and give it a tiny shot of starting fluid while cranking to see if it will catch.

Yes to all the info you asked about and thanks for the response.

 

[thepumpguysc]

REMOVE the return connector on the top of the pump.. & try to start it.

 

[Pearce Graham]

REMOVE the return connector on the top of the pump.. & try to start it.

I did this yesterday and it still wouldn't start. Thanks. Do you know if this pump is capable of running injectors that have a popoff of 3200 psi? I have a set that came with it but didnt want to install them since the 580c is spec'd at 2800 psi.

 

[thepumpguysc]

U can use the 3200 psi but the fuel needs to b turned up..
Have u done a compression test.?
I’m rebuilding a 64AJ right now..
The flex ring was deteriorated..

 

[Delmer]

I did this yesterday and it still wouldn't start...

ALL of the fitting off of the pump? so that you could stick a pen inside the pump housing?

 

[Pearce Graham]

ALL of the fitting off of the pump? so that you could stick a pen inside the pump housing?

yes

 

[Pearce Graham]

U can use the 3200 psi but the fuel needs to b turned up..
Have u done a compression test.?
I’m rebuilding a 64AJ right now..
The flex ring was deteriorated..

I have not done a compression test yet.

 

[Pearce Graham]

Waiting for a compression test fitting for the pencil type injectors. I was able to pull the #1 injector yesterday and verify that it is popping off. I'm now wondering if I may be looking at a timing or valvetrain issue. Any thoughts on ruling out the pump after this latest discovery?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Check the pump to engine timing..
Get the 2 lines in the pump window and check the * at the flywheel cover..(above the starter?)

 

[outlawspeeder]

How old is the fuel?
Is it gummy?
When I bought my Case the prior owner had bio diesel in it and it sat. Fuel pump had to be rebuilt and the fuel tank flushed at a radiator shop.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Good thinkin..

 

[franklin2]

How old is the fuel?
Is it gummy?
When I bought my Case the prior owner had bio diesel in it and it sat. Fuel pump had to be rebuilt and the fuel tank flushed at a radiator shop.

We run into that problem at work where they use bio fuel. I have found the diesel 911 in the red bottle will dissolve that stuff.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Hmm.. I think I’ll try a bottle for my pump clean-up..
I HAVE TO wire wheel or bead blast EVERY PART inside a pump that runs bio.. (108)
It’s some horrible stuff.!!
If it does indeed dissolve it, I’ll buy a case just for cleaning.!!

 

[franklin2]

Hmm.. I think I’ll try a bottle for my pump clean-up..
I HAVE TO wire wheel or bead blast EVERY PART inside a pump that runs bio.. (108)
It’s some horrible stuff.!!
If it does indeed dissolve it, I’ll buy a case just for cleaning.!!

We do buy it by the case.

Something else I found out. I also have to work on small engines that have sat around for years. I had one gas engine that had old thick ethanol fuel gum in the bottom of the tank, and nothing seemed to break it up. The shop forman told my to try the diesel 911 in that. Worked like a champ. I poured some 911 in it, and put some lag bolts in the tank and kept shaking it around, cleaned it right up after a little time for it to work.

Just got through getting a old John Deere 750 tractor going that had been sitting with this bio fuel in it for the past 5 years. Pulled the fuel filter, you could pour fuel in the center of the filter and it would hold it just like a cup, no fuel could get through. I got a new filter, but I could not get the gum off the plastic see-through filter bowl, and I was afraid to put any strong solvents to that plastic. So I left it, poured 2 quart bottles of the 911 in the empty tank, and then ran the engine on that till I got it over to the fuel pumps.

It's been running great, and after a few weeks I notice that now I can see the new filter through the plastic bowl, the 911 has slowly ate the gum off the plastic. I did have to put that lousy bio back in it, that's all we are allowed to run.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Nice to hear about a product that actually works..
It may not be for its intended purpose.. but works nevertheless..
I get A LOT of pumps that are gummed up like that.. and it literally takes me HOURS to clean them up..
I’ll give it a try.. THANKS