Case 580b jumps out of first gear

[Joe Ramirez]

Hello:

I have read the posts discussing this model where the shuttle shift jumps out of first gear under load. My 1971 model jumps out under load or just when traveling without pushing a "load". Phil states fixing this type of problem is "Not usually an expensive repair, sometimes a fork, shifter rod, or end-play issue". The question is how do you figure out which one of the above is causing the problem? :beatsme

When I look at the service manual, the shifter rod is located on the top assembly of the torque tube, so that appears to be accessible without breaking the tractor into two pieces. Is this correct? It would be great if things were that simple.

Is the shift fork something that can be worked on from the top of the torque tube without breaking the tractor? Is this correct?

An end-play problem leads me to believe you would have the break the tractor to get at the parts. Is this correct?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Joe

 

[Phil]

As I recall the direct drive models with the high-low range were not common. Is that what you have? I believe the torque tube cover with the shifter fork on it, can be removed without much effort. I did not check my manual, but I believe that cover should have both shuttle and high/low levers attached. Splitting the tractor would be required for any work on the gear train, but check the high/low shifting fork assembly first.

If it's the four speed shift lever that jumps out of first only, then often it's the cover dowel that's the problem. Phil

 

[Racenitro]

You may need to remove the tires to get to the bolts that hold the floor plates on. May be easier to remove the two bolts that hold the fenders on and hte floor plates will come off with the fenders exposing the covers mentioned above.

 

[Joe Ramirez]

Phil:

I have the four speed shuttle. You state "If it's the four speed shift lever that jumps out of first only, then often it's the cover dowel that's the problem." Is the "cover dowel" the same thing as the "shifter rail" for first/second? The shifter rails I am referring to are underneath the shift lever housing and where the detent spring presses the steel balls onto the rail. My service manual does not show a "cover dowlel. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Racenitro]

Joe:
The shift forks are part of the shift tower/cover. There are three rails w/3 forks...
They all come out as a unit.....pay close attention when removing so you can reinsert in same position....
Several things make meshed gears jump out...worn teeth, loose forks on rails, weak detent springs improperly aligned forks
This is what is pictured in my 580B manual
I am doing the same removal today, but for different reasons....
I took off both fenders to gain access and have one tire/wheel off to make it easier to gain access.

 

[Joe Ramirez]

Racenitro:

Thanks!

I am thinking of removing the assembly and take it to a professional mechanic to repair since his service call costs would be over 50 percent of the total repair.

 

[Phil]

If it's only first gear it jumps out of, check the dowel used to locate the transmission cover( not to be confused with the torque tube cover). It's at the back of the cover in the middle. They have a tendency to get pushed down too far into the trans/diff housing, and not come out with the cover. The dowel nicely limits the travel of the first/second shifter rod so that doesn't get locked by it's detent ball.

This problem is not to be confused with the high/low lever, if you have one. Phil

 

[Joe Ramirez]

Phil and Racenitro:

Thanks for the advice. Phil, you are a wonder of anecdotal things that can go wrong!

Racenitro, how did the removal of the assembly go? I imagine the fork placement is what is important to put back into the right position when reassembling- is this correct?

 

[Racenitro]

As I has suspected...I have a bad ring and pinion...ring gear missing parts of 5 teeth and 3 on pinion are badly damaged...

In process of removing hoe and splitting open next....

Will order new ring/pinion set tomorrow....also replacing clutch while I am this far...
Know I don't have to split at bell housing, but snce I am already 50% ther, why not make sure now rather than later.

 

[Joe Ramirez]

Phil:

My BH has a shuttle only and no dual range. My service manual shows a locating dowel for the dual range shuttle assembly. I have not been able to find a dowel on the shuttle/shift lever diagrams of the manual. Is there a locating dowel on the non-dual, shuttle only assembly?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Joe Ramirez]

Correction:

Phil,
Is the dowel pin you are referring to on my shuttle shift (no dual range) actually Part Number 138-245 PIN, LOCK, located to the right and front of the safety switch on the gear shift cover assembly?

 

[Phil]

Yes,
That is the correct part # but the dowel is actually located at the rear, by the #4 in the drawing. If you don't see the dowel in the cover, then it's probably pushed down. Feel underneath the transaxle casting at the rear.

I think many 580B ring and pinion failures are caused by lack of proper support for the carrier. Phil

 

[Racenitro]

Phil...
You are correct, or at least according to a freind of mine that is a fabic mechanic....
He guessed that was the problem..... I bought the TLB knowing it needed help....paid very little for it....so the fix's dpn't bother me...
THe case is not cracked...which I am told happens sometimes....
Rest of hoe is in decent shape....starts-runs well, no smoke....hydraulics work...(Needs a few hoses replaced) that is normal and has an extend-a-hoe....
Got it to use on my farm...
Should have kept the 3 4500's I had over the past 4 years....everytime I decided I did not need one any more, I'd sell it only to find I needed a hoe again...ditches, culverts, brush to deal with....
Maybe I will get smart and keep one around.

 

[nicholasj]

Phil...
You are correct, or at least according to a freind of mine that is a fabic mechanic....
He guessed that was the problem..... I bought the TLB knowing it needed help....paid very little for it....so the fix's dpn't bother me...
THe case is not cracked...which I am told happens sometimes....
Rest of hoe is in decent shape....starts-runs well, no smoke....hydraulics work...(Needs a few hoses replaced) that is normal and has an extend-a-hoe....
Got it to use on my farm...
Should have kept the 3 4500's I had over the past 4 years....everytime I decided I did not need one any more, I'd sell it only to find I needed a hoe again...ditches, culverts, brush to deal with....
Maybe I will get smart and keep one around.

 

[nicholasj]

Hi Phil you have helped me greatly fixing my machine my split and pinion fix was a success couple years back but since then I've alao had this 1st gear jumping issue I had the cove off and on quite a bit my fathers machine does same thing so my question would be number 9 pin gets stuck why only first gear does it affect and when I was putting back putting back together wouldn't the bolts safice to align cover

 

[Tinkerer]

Phil hasn't been heard from in 11 years, Nicholas.
Be patient, coy, melben or maybe even sheepsfoot will probably help you out.
I can't anymore than what has already been discussed in 2009.

 

[nicholasj]

Jeez my bad I must have been reading Phil's threads and you were helping anyway thanks.And ill hope for some advice if not trial and error will do,Takes longer but its ok thanks again man

 

[MayaWilson]

You may need to remove the tires to get to the bolts that hold the floor plates on. May be easier to remove the two bolts that hold the fenders on and hte floor plates will come off with the fenders exposing the covers mentioned above.

 

[nicholasj]

Ok thanks