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Case 580 Super L hydraulic issue

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Rooster87, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Hi everybody I’m new to this forum so not sure where to post. I bought a 1998 case 580 super L series 2 with 4300 hrs. The machine runs great UNTIL it’s warmed up then the rear controls get really erratic.When loading trucks If I’m swinging and go to dump the swing speeds up. (That’s the best way I can explain it) also the brakes screech terribly when the machine has warmed up. It’s almost like a fluid issue getting to thin when hot. I dropped fluid and changed filter, refilled with case Hytran still same problem. Any help would be appreciated so my ditch man can feel safe again haha
     
  2. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    Welcome to HEF @Rooster87
    Re the hydraulics -
    1) Does the swing cushioning work correctly? With the same amount of cushion at full LHS & RHS?
    2) If you hold the bucket controls till the end of the stroke & continue to hold pressure, does any other circuit move?

    Re the brakes
    1) Filter? There is none on the rear axle......
    2) If you change the oil at the rear axle, you also need to add a bottle of Axle Oil Additive (CNHI part #402982A2) to help stop the squark.
     
  3. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Thank you so much for the fast reply airman! I will check the swing cushion out today. I meant I changed the main hydraulic fluid and filter. I was under the assumption that the rear axle ran off of the same hydraulic fluid as everything else?
     
  4. highwayghost

    highwayghost Well-Known Member

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    Check the rear end oil. The brakes are wet brakes. Same type oil as trans. Did you check the hydraulic oil temp? Maybe the oil cooler isn't doing it's job. Flush the rad and oil cooler fins, check the cooler for sufficient oil flow.
     
  5. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Highway ghost you may be on to something! I’m use to a diesel taking a long time to warm up but this machine throws heat after only a few minutes.I will check rear ended oil tonight. Thank you!
     
  6. highwayghost

    highwayghost Well-Known Member

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    I recently did a lot of cleaning on my 580SL so that I could do all the repairs. I spent 8+ hours power washing trying to clean the years of dirt and oil from the underside. Still more cleaning to do. One thing that surprised me is how much dirt was flushed from the rad area. Roger, Pittsburgh, PA
     
  7. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Sorry guys I left this backhoe on site to get a water main done but as I was running it today and yesterday I was going through what alrman was saying. I was crowding dirt with the swing back into the ditch if it was to much dirt to swing in I usually pull up on the boom to take the top off but my controls were rock hard. I had to take my foot off the swing pull up on the boom and then continue to swing. Our super M isn’t like that and maybe this is linked to my problem? I hope that wasn’t to confusing to understand haha
     
  8. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Highway ghost I plan on doing some pressure washing but not sure about 8hrs of it haha I like to have lots of grease on everything. I see your from Pittsburgh, that’s about an hour south of me
     
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  9. highwayghost

    highwayghost Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the south hills of Pittsburgh, just outside Allegheny CO. on RT. 19. Any updates?? Interested in your fixes since I have the same machine. GO STEELERS!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  10. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Hey highway ghost, I just brought it back to the shop today so plan on pressure washing and checking the rear end oil. I pray it’s not the actual brake pads because that looks like a job splitting the axle to get to them. Do you know of any kind of peak hole I could look in and see how the brakes look?
     
  11. highwayghost

    highwayghost Well-Known Member

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    No inspection hole that I am aware of but maybe one of the senior members knows some tricks to tell how much wear the brakes have. Draining the rear end oil and check it's condition along with the drain plug magnets is the place to start. It would be a big job to change brakes. Pretty sure you have to pull the rear end. There is a Youtube video of a similar machine. Search '580 brakes".
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  12. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Yea I checked that video out that’s kinda why I don’t want to tackle that if I don’t have to. So today I pressure washed everything out . My water temp gauge reads good but was out of fluid in the reservoir. What color are we using? Tomorrow I’m going to pull the drain plug on the rear ende and refill. I was under there today and didn’t see kind of peak hole for the brakes. I have to dig test holes for perk Friday so don’t really want to get into anything major until I can get another backhoe back to the shop.
     
  13. highwayghost

    highwayghost Well-Known Member

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    Mine was low on coolant when it was delivered and I put in the standard green.

    From the operators manual...
    upload_2019-11-27_18-54-34.png

    Need to do a drain and flush soon anyway.
     
  14. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Ok so update on everything... I drained the rear end and added a Lucas additive for chatter which really helped with the screeching. Brakes seem to grab really hard like they are sticking, when I’m digging and go to push myself along with the back bucket it’s hard to move unless I click it into forward and push. Oil was really black compared to the front axle. Crossing fingers that Lucas solves my problems. Groff was here today working on our Super N and he said maybe some glazing that the Lucas should help... we will see. As far as the erratic swing it seems if I run the rpms up around 1800-2000 it’s not as bad
     
  15. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    With fresh oil & additive - the brakes should not be acting the way you describe - as long as the oil & additive are correct for the machine & each other.
    You didn't mention what oil you ended up putting into the axle??

    The Lucas product - is designed for engines & gearboxes isn't it?? Not wet brakes......
    The CNH Hy Trans oil & the axle additive are not over the top expensive & is the only combination I use (as a repairer) & recommend.

    If the brakes are sticking/dragging as you describe - it is going to cost you more repair $$$$ soon!
     
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  16. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Hey alrman I used the recommended case hytran (ms1207) and the Lucas is called hydraulic booster and stop leak. Says on the back of bottle good for wet brake chatter. I’m not trying to take the easy way out but I hate to rip everything apart to find out it just needed an additive.
     
  17. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    I totally agree! That's why I asked.

    But, did you use a genuine CNH oil or an equivalent? If you did buy genuine oil why wasn't the correct additive also purchased?

    The current Case Hy-Tran Ultratraction is MAT3540.
    The aftermarket oils cover a large range of OE equipment specs & some say they cover both MAT3540 & MS1207 plus many more grades. However the speal I got when I worked for CNH was that Hytrans was a special formula & there is no exact equivalent.

    It has been my experience to see non genuine oils not perform as they should when it comes to preventing brake noise - in Case & Cat backhoes.
    I rebuilt brakes on rear axle of a Cat 428 which uses the same/similar New Holland axle as a Case 580SR. I used the Case oil & additive in the Cat axle as I had some on hand - thinking "it won't make a difference" - next day the owner calls & tell me the noise was unbearable. I went & got the correct Cat TDTO oil & additive (if I recall) & changed it - quiet as a mouse.
     
  18. Rooster87

    Rooster87 Member

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    Alrman, I will dump that rear end oil and use Case hytran with the additive. I used an off brand compatible with hytran not thinking it would hurt since the military spec number (ms1207) was on the back. What is your thoughts on using off brand in the hydraulic tank? I don’t mind paying a little more to make the machine right, but to pay a little more because “case” is on the jug makes no sense to me
     
  19. 63 caveman

    63 caveman Well-Known Member

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    I believe the brake system (oil) is separate from the transaxle oil (but not sure on super L). Do you have a brake fluid reservoir?

    Did you check the suction screen when you changed fluid (looking for pieces of brake lining from disc)?

    If warming up fast also check belt and tension to be sure not slipping on water pump (shot in the dark).

    The hydraulic controls being weak or inconsistent could be main relieve leaking (again shot in the dark but that would cause quick warm up as well) but then again it's hard to be smooth with a 4 stick if you don't run them all the time (ha ha).

    I'm also 60 miles north of Pittsburgh, Kennerdell let me know if I can help (PM or here I just don't look everyday) I,ve done brakes on the 580s before not all that hard just make sure you get the right parts guy at Groff if you know what i mean!
     
  20. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    The rear axle is very particular about oil, the hydraulics are alot more forgiving, just don't go TOO cheap...... stick with the trusted oil makers. ....... (can we actually trust anyone who makes oil?? :confused:)