CASE 450 DOZER WITH ALUMINUM SHAVINGS IN SUCTION FILTER

[Case450-1975]

Recently purchased a 1975 Case 450 dozer that had been sitting for 8 + years. Decided to change all filters and fluids along with some other maintenance work it required. Getting filters at an economical price has proved challenging but had luck so far.

When I pulled the hose and cover off the suction filter ahead of the hydraulic charge pump it was full of aluminum shavings. Where would the be coming from? The charge pump itself (even though the filter was stopping them from entering the intake). Could it have the aluminum pistons in the clutch packs?

I will check the hydraulic reservoir as well although the fluid in it appeared clear when I drained it.

Any help/suggestions appreciated.

 

[Case450-1975]

After reviewing the fluid flow chart I have come to the conclusion that it is probably from the forward reverse clutch packs in the transmission. Will probably flush out the housing and clean up the old filter (save the new one) and run it a bit, then check it again. Will also try to get some fluid from the bottom of the hydraulic reservoir and transmission to see if the shavings are there as well. Filter did a great job of stopping stuff before it got into the pump.

 

[Case450-1975]

Lol, do feel like I am talking to myself though.

 

[Tinkerer]

Welcome to HEF, Case450-1975
The hydraulic pump and convertor (transmission) pump are two separate systems.
The hydraulic system pump is usually just referred to as the hydraulic pump.
If you are changing the hyd. system filters did you check the one in the hydraulic tank ?

 

[Tinkerer]

I am also posting the transmission oil flow schematic that clearly shows the charge pump and the filters for it.

 

[Case450-1975]

From the flow chart you posted it appears you have the same repair manual that I have. The suction filter is bolted to the firewall and has the large rubber line that goes directly into what my book and your diagram calls the charging pump that bolts on just under the alternator.

Here is my logic:

The only place, at this time, that I have found the shavings is in the suction filter canister. It has not been able to pass through the pump or beyond so the filter did its job.

Looks like the intake line for the suction filter goes into the transmission housing/reservoir. The only thing made out of aluminum that I can see in the transmission are the pistons in the high/low clutch packs (some of the pistons were iron) so am assuming that his is possibly the source. Still exploring, hoping to find time tomorrow to run a "dipper" down into the transmission case to try to pick up aluminum from the bottom. May see if there is a drain plug to drain the transmission housing and see if aluminum comes out with it.

I do appreciate the suggestions/questions. Love for my mind and logic to be challenged...lol, makes me think.

 

[alrman]

The torque converter runs in the same oil - lots of alloy in there......
Usually when this is the case, the transmission oil will have a very metallic flec to it when looked at in the sunlight.

 

[Case450-1975]

When I changed the actual transmission filter there was a metallic glint to it. Had not considered the torque converter but that makes sense.

This dozer sat for 8 + years and when I got it running it did not want to move much but after trying forward and reverse it began to move slowly. Then at higher engine rpm it would move and seemed to improve after running a while. It did however drop torque converter pressure at times and stop, then pressure returned and it moved again.

Engine balks under a load and I think the Roosa Master weight carrier flex ring is probably shot, I have rebuilt a few of those on Allis Chalmers tractors so no big problems there. Have drained all fuel and replaced with new but have not changed the fuel filters yet.

Have only loaded it, brought it home and driven it a bit around the lot. My goal was to change all filters and fluids including final drives and such. I did have to rebuild the starter prior to starting it. The little dozer is in fantastic shape and shows only 1400 hours. I do know the history from when it was new, I am the 3rd owner. Undercarriage is great and all pins and bushings show very little wear.

My goal is to bring it back to a useful life and I negotiated a purchase price that allowed me lots of room for repairs.

Any advice on rebuilding the torque converter if I have to go there?

Here is a photo of the filter showing about half of the shavings that came out with the filter, the housing was full as well.

 

[alrman]

Yep, that's pretty ugly.....
Have a look around for parts on it. Genuine won't be cheap. By the look of it yours will need a stator, turbine & a hub.
It may pay to look for a good used converter & rebuild it before install.

 

[Case450-1975]

Names of any potential suppliers would be appreciate. I will probably delay further work on the dozer until later this fall. Will more than likely pull the motor and torque converter out, rebuild the injection pump, addressing the torque converter and may remove the oil pan and check rod and main bearings as the Case engine seems to have an issue in that area.

Thanks for the help, my mind just did not go to the converter for some reason and I feel that makes the most sense for the volume of filings I found.

 

[Tinkerer]

https://joseph.com/
I have purchased gears and other transmission parts from them. Reasonable prices at that time.

 

[Case450-1975]

Update: Finally found a rebuilt torque converter, was a bit pricey at $2,200 but has a guarantee. Pulling the motor and converter and plan on replacing all rubber hoses, rebuilding the Roosa Master pump. Thinking about replacing the charge pump and hydraulic pump but they both had good pressure so may try it with the old pumps. Neither appears to be leaking but may install the rear seal in the hydraulic pump must because I have it off. Will keep you posted, anyone interested in any photos of the engine removal/replacement?

 

[alrman]

@Case450-1975 We all like to see pictures

 

[Tinkerer]

@Case450-1975 We all like to see pictures

X 2 !

 

[Case450-1975]

Pulled the motor this evening and will remove the torque converter tomorrow and send photos if there is anything to see that I think someone might be interested in.

On another 450 topic, how much oil pressure does the little 188 carry? Mine is at 65 psi at 2000 rpm.

 

[alrman]

OOOH! nice clean work area!
Your oil pressure is about bang on - spec is 50-70psi warm at high RPM.

 

[Case450-1975]

Thanks arlman. Was thinking about pulling the pan and checking the bearings as I have read statements that this engine likes to throw number 3 rod through the block. Hoping this is an instance where it happened once and has been repeated often...lol. Engine is pretty dry but will see what it takes to put front and rear main seals in.

 

[Case450-1975]

Rebuilt torque converter and flex plate in. Now on to the injection pump. Dozer runs but dies down and sometimes stops, starts back up and repeats. New fuel, new filters so I suspected the governor flex ring had deteriorated. Opened up the timing window, no flakes. Hmmm, removed the pump and pulled the top. Photo's tell the story. Have the parts on hand so put it in the stand tonight and if I have time will rebuild it tomorrow.