CASE 450 . DIESEL

[mcprp]

I replaced a bull gear , final drive oil seals , flushed and replaced all hydraulic fluid and Tran fluid , put a new brake cylinder in , so I don’t think I’m incapable of replacing a water pump but I have to take that whole front hood off to get at everything .

 

[Welder Dave]

I think Delmer was just emphasizing the importance of changing the water pump so you don't have a catastrophic failure. You assumed it was an expensive fix. Maybe start a new thread asking about the cylinder.

 

[Delmer]

I was teasing you a little bit. Please listen to advice, and ask questions before trying something else, or if you don't understand the advice. I don't like stop leak products. I had never heard of IRONTITE, and still don't like the idea of most stop leak products, the tar ball one is even worse. Here is a good explanation of cooling system flushing:
http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/VoltageDrop/flush.htm
I like a combination of the live flush and the hose drop flush. or an air blast flush if needed. Sounds like you don't need any more flushing though.

The water pump is a common item to wear out and need routine replacement, more from time and neglect than with regular hours. If you can reach it, it's not bad at all, may even be cheaper than $100.

Is the cylinder you're talking about just like one you'd find on the tailgate of a minivan etc? A hood lift assist cylinder? Those usually just have a spring that grabs hold of the ball socket and you pop them off the ball with a pry bar.

 

[mcprp]

I was teasing you a little bit. Please listen to advice, and ask questions before trying something else, or if you don't understand the advice. I don't like stop leak products. I had never heard of IRONTITE, and still don't like the idea of most stop leak products, the tar ball one is even worse. Here is a good explanation of cooling system flushing:
http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/VoltageDrop/flush.htm
I like a combination of the live flush and the hose drop flush. or an air blast flush if needed. Sounds like you don't need any more flushing though.

The water pump is a common item to wear out and need routine replacement, more from time and neglect than with regular hours. If you can reach it, it's not bad at all, may even be cheaper than $100.

Is the cylinder you're talking about just like one you'd find on the tailgate of a minivan etc? A hood lift assist cylinder? Those usually just have a spring that grabs hold of the ball socket and you pop them off the ball with a pry bar.

Well it is a flush solution you mix with a gallon of water and after mixed it has a reddish color . It is 100 % water based . My intention of it were only for flushing . It was after repairing the hose and checking thoroughly that I noticed the slow drip from behind the water pump pulley . Now I want to change the water pump but in order to get at it properly you first need to pull the front hood cover . The one that the headlights tie into . The dozer blade is attached to the lift cylinders that attach to the front hood that needs to be removed . This is what I am describing . Here is a picture

 

[mcprp]

Well it is a flush solution you mix with a gallon of water and after mixed it has a reddish color . It is 100 % water based . My intention of it were only for flushing . It was after repairing the hose and checking thoroughly that I noticed the slow drip from behind the water pump pulley . Now I want to change the water pump but in order to get at it properly you first need to pull the front hood cover . The one that the headlights tie into . The dozer blade is attached to the lift cylinders that attach to the front hood that needs to be removed . This is what I am describing . Here is a picture

this is what im talking about

 

[mcprp]

this is the bolt i removed , it has a fine thread and when you down inside of it , it has a steel ball bearing that i can only assume you push in that unlocks it from the place it is attached . i don't see any other obvious way for it to come apart but that's just me ,

 

[mcprp]

this is the bolt

 

[alrman]

You shouldn't need to remove the hard nose of the dozer, or the radiator, simply to replace the water pump.
You will need to remove the hood to give you more access room.
I have not replaced a pump on a 450 for more years than I wish to remember..... but I'm almost certain it can be done without removing the radiator.
Usually, one would loosen the fanbelt, maybe remove the alternator/generator, unbolt the engine fan from the pump, the fan may remain in the bottom of the radiator shroud, remove the pulley, unbolt the pump.
Be sure to thoroughly clean the old gasket material from the block before fitting the new pump.

BTW - there are about 20 of those ball bearings in that lift cylinder trunion. If you were to remove the hard nose, you would leave those ball bearings alone, only remove the cylinders - simply remove the two short greaseable pins which are retained by the bolts & nuts each side of the lift cylinder pivot. Pull the pin at the rod end of the cylinder, undo the hoses & remove the cylinder.

 

[mcprp]

You shouldn't need to remove the hard nose of the dozer, or the radiator, simply to replace the water pump.
You will need to remove the hood to give you more access room.
I have not replaced a pump on a 450 for more years than I wish to remember..... but I'm almost certain it can be done without removing the radiator.
Usually, one would loosen the fanbelt, maybe remove the alternator/generator, unbolt the engine fan from the pump, the fan may remain in the bottom of the radiator shroud, remove the pulley, unbolt the pump.
Be sure to thoroughly clean the old gasket material from the block be fore fitting the new pump.

BTW - there are about 20 of those ball bearings in that lift cylinder trunion. If you were to remove the hard nose, you would leave those ball bearings alone, only remove the cylinders - simply remove the two short greaseable pins which are retained by the bolts & nuts each side of the lift cylinder pivot. Pull the pin at the rod end of the cylinder, undo the hoses & remove the cylinder.

Perfect ! Thankyou !

 

[mcprp]

I’m trying to think why it didn’t seem that simple but when I take another look I’ll see why .

 

[mcprp]

I was a pipefitter welder for 35 years . I’ve rebuilt pumps and done a lot of things I looked at it pretty close but obviously not close enough . Lol

 

[mcprp]

You guys are a great help to me and I thank you again

 

[mcprp]

But now that I give it a second thought , I really don’t see accessibility with out removing that front shroud . Lol . I could barely see the leak from looking in . Lol

 

[alrman]

I’m trying to think why it didn’t seem that simple but when I take another look I’ll see why .

That's probably the reason nobody responded to your question about pulling the pump......They are not usually a big job to do, & everyone figured you would work it out once you looked at it properly.

You will likely need to have a box of Band Aids ready to curb the blood flow from your knuckles.....

 

[mcprp]

It’s all about 12 inches forward and under the top of that front shroud

 

[mcprp]

I really hate to doubt you because know your a thousand times smarter than I am but I really need to know how to disconnect the top of those lift cylinders so I can make it more accessible . It can’t be that hard . It was a universal grease fitting but I really didn’t see how to take it apart . Just seems if it was obvious I would have figured it out , I hope I’m not that dumb

 

[alrman]

Machinery is USUALLY designed to allow repairs such as this without the removal of major components.
Like I said, I can't recall the specific proceedure for a water pump replacement on your 450 - but I'm confident you can do it if you can create some space to get your arms into the work area.

 

[mcprp]

If not anything else what is that bolt for and why is there a ball bearing in there that doesn’t seem to serve any other purpose than a snap lock

 

[mcprp]

To remove the top of the piston from its housing ? Sorry I am doubtful but I have looked at it very close .

 

[alrman]

If not anything else what is that bolt for and why is there a ball bearing in there that doesn’t seem to serve any other purpose than a snap lock

......... reread my post #108.......