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Case 450 3056051

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
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9,373
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The shore of the illinois river USA
So tinkerer ! Here’s what came out of my transmission on the third drain . I filtered all the oil just like you said . I also drained my oil and a very small amount of mud came out of that also . Then I rinsed it with diesel and blew air in there and a small amount flushed out again . It seems like it’s clean now but I wanted to drop the oil pan and can’t figure out why it seems to tuck in under a separate divider into the torque converter . Don’t know how I would get to those nuts . Hard to explain , I should have taken a picture . I’m going to put 15/40 in it instead of 30 w . Glad I drained it though . Never would have thought mud got in there also .

Just to clarify-->You flushed the engine and you are taking the oil pan off of the engine, correct ?

Did you start the motor and run the transmission in gear to get the oil warm when you did the hydraulic flush ?
Is that crap water soluble ?
I know it saturated with oil. Burn some of it and see if whats left looks like dirt.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
I flushed the engine and wanted to take the oil pan off but can’t see how to get to the back bolts . I know that sounds strange but the pan tucks under a divider of some sort and I can’t see the back bolts . I’ll take a picture tomorrow . I started the engine on the last two flushes but not this last one . Just drained the tranny oil and filtered it . That crap is dirt . No doubt ! Anyway little by little , making headway !
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Just to clarify-->You flushed the engine and you are taking the oil pan off of the engine, correct ?

Did you start the motor and run the transmission in gear to get the oil warm when you did the hydraulic flush ?
Is that crap water soluble ?
I know it saturated with oil. Burn some of it and see if whats left looks like dirt.
Hey coy . I wanted to ask you if I put 6 quarts of diesel in the engine and started it just for 1 minute to flush it , would that hurt it ? Then I would let it drain all day , blow some air in there and fill it with 15/40 .
 

Coy Lancaster

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Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,987
Location
Arkansas
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service tech
I wouldn't recommend it, I'm afraid it would do more damage than good. Some on here may argue with me but I'd rather just put some cheap 30W engine oil in it and run that for a bit.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
I wouldn't recommend it, I'm afraid it would do more damage than good. Some on here may argue with me but I'd rather just put some cheap 30W engine oil in it and run that for a bit.
Coy and tinkerer ! I dropped my oil pan today , it had about an inch of mud in the bottom of the pan . It looked all clean up in the engine and the pump looked clean to . How that mud got on in there is beyond my thoughts . I think I got everything clean now , just waiting on the new pump under warranty . Probably be a week before I get it . Then I’ll start over again . I had a thought . I’m surprised the suction line that runs down to the tranny doesn’t have a check valve in it just before it goes into the tranny . That way you would be less likely to lose prime . Just a thought .
 

Coy Lancaster

Senior Member
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Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,987
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
service tech
Case at one time thought about that. But decided against it thinking the check valve may fail and burn pump.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Update ... went out today put my old pump back on . Put a check valve at the bottom of the suction line just before the tranny . Put fresh tranny fluid in it . Started it up . Instant pressure . Noticed the pump getting slightly warm . Turned dozer off . Took cooling lines off radiator . Started it up . No flow . Looked at the map of flow . Took hose off inlet of torque converter . Oil not getting past torque converter . Took springs out of pressure regulator . Put plug back on . Instant flow to radiator and dozer runs like a charm . Now for my question , that cylinder in the pressure regulator was blocking the flow of transmission fluid getting into my torque converter and on to my radiator . Can anyone tell me why . I’m going to put the springs back in tomorrow but I think that cylinder was stuck at top dead center not getting pushed down to allow flow . Can anyone give me some insight on this . I never even had a bad pump . Unbelievable . I sent the new pump back to broken tractor and they will probably be sending it back to me saying there’s nothing wrong with it either . So if anyone wants to buy a Brand new pump let me know . I can give you a great deal . My loss your gain . I paid 800 . I’ll sell it for five if anyone’s interested .
 

Theweldor

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
556
Location
Western, NY
Occupation
The Village Idiot
I have looked at stuff like that over the years. Came to the conclusion it was a piece of something that held up the plunger that came out when taken apart that left with the oil and just never saw it. The tolerances are so minute on many of these valves that you will not see the culprit, but disassembly will bring it out sight unseen.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
I have looked at stuff like that over the years. Came to the conclusion it was a piece of something that held up the plunger that came out when taken apart that left with the oil and just never saw it. The tolerances are so minute on many of these valves that you will not see the culprit, but disassembly will bring it out sight unseen.
I have looked at stuff like that over the years. Came to the conclusion it was a piece of something that held up the plunger that came out when taken apart that left with the oil and just never saw it. The tolerances are so minute on many of these valves that you will not see the culprit, but disassembly will bring it out sight unseen.
It’s funny you say that . Not sure if you have followed my post from the beginning but all the problems started when I got stuck in the mud up to the frame . When I pulled the pressure regulator off I didn’t notice anything because it comes off so quick with spring pressure and I let it fall into a pan I had under it . Well when I reached in to grab the springs and washer I felt something hard , it was a small stone . I know the pan was wiped perfectly clean when I put it under the plug so that stone must have came out of there . No clue how it got in there but then I don’t even know how the mud got into the system , the only thing I can think of is there is a tear drop inspection slider on the flywheel housing . Wonder if everything got in the from it . But I would think that’s the torque converter is sealed of from the flywheel . You got me . I’m just so happy I finally figured out the problem . The contaminated oil was a big part of the problem also .
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,373
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
That is great news ! Problems like yours can keep a person awake at night because they are so aggravating.
If keep that new pump you likely will never need it. But if you have my luck you might be buying another one sometime in the future. ;)
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
That is great news ! Problems like yours can keep a person awake at night because they are so aggravating.
If keep that new pump you likely will never need it. But if you have my luck you might be buying another one sometime in the future. ;)
well today i went out to put the springs back in the pressure regulator . when i do the piston gets stuck at the top and doesn't allow tranny fluid to enter toque convertor and doesn't
allow fluid to circulate in the radiator . i don't know what to do . if i don't have the springs in and start it up the fluid will push the piston down and then i can remove the plug and take it out . it doesn't look like theres anything wrong with the piston but when i put the springs in it restricts flow . i need help . problems never end .
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Which relief valve are referring to ?
Have you checked both valves to see if the springs and pistons are installed correctly ?
Did you do any pressure checks ?
Not relief valve . pressure regulator valve . no i have not done any pressure checks because i am not capable of doing so without a flow meter . but maybe your right , maybe theirs not enough pressure to push the springs down . but it seems to drive and steer ok . ya know what ? im just going to have to bring it to case . this is way over my head . ill spend more keep trying to figure this out then its worth . this is crazy .
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Sorry for the confusion.
There is both a relief valve and a pressure regulator.
I would suggest that you take the relief valve apart and check the piston and springs in it.
I did , doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with them at all . The only thing I can say is when I remove them , the piston is always stuck at the top and the only way I can get it out is to remove the springs and put the plug back on , then start the machine for a second and turn it off , then when I take the plug off the piston has been pushed down so I can remove it but I think the problem is that there is Not enough fluid pressure to push the piston down when the springs are in and the gauge shows that . Only about 100 psi . I just don’t know why everything operates ok when theirs isn't enough pressure . So maybe it’s the weak old pump that I put back on . Still waiting to hear from broken tractor about the new pump they sent me . Whether or not it’s any good . Maybe I’m losing pressure internally. That’s why I’m going to have to bring it to case .
 

mcprp

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Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
It’s always ran beautiful and I haven’t done anything to change it .
I think the pistons are identical , the one only difference between the pressure regulator and the pressure relief is there is two springs in the pressure regulator but I haven’t changed anything . I don’t know exactly how the pressure regulator works . From what I’ve learned by my experience the pressure pushes down on the piston and allows flow to the radiator because when I put the springs in , I get no flow to the radiator . Maybe my old pump is pushing but is weak . No clue !
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
I think the pistons are identical , the one only difference between the pressure regulator and the pressure relief is there is two springs in the pressure regulator but I haven’t changed anything . I don’t know exactly how the pressure regulator works . From what I’ve learned by my experience the pressure pushes down on the piston and allows flow to the radiator because when I put the springs in , I get no flow to the radiator . Maybe my old pump is pushing but is weak . No clue !
And the hose that goes to the gauge is just below the highest point that the piston can reach so when the piston is pushed down far enough the gauge can be read . I’m just guessing at this because to be honest , I don’t have a clue . I wish someone could explain how the two valves work because it would make it easier to understand the system .
 
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