Case 435 electricial issue

[JustInCase]

My Case 435 skid steer was parked for a couple of months as the fan belt snapped and it's awkward to replace so never got to it.
I got it fixed but when I went to start I wasn't getting any power to the control panel. I traced that back to a faulty battery isolator switch and now I have power on the control panel which lights up the fuel guage, allows me to turn on lights but the 3 red lights such as the oil pressure indicator don't light up and the buzzer doesn't sound like it normally would when the key is turned. As a result, it's not turning over.

I've checked the fuses and they all seem fine. Any ideas why I'm getting power to most functions except the ignition?

 

[HarleyHappy]

Most probably a bad ground or positive cable. When the belt crapped out, could it have hit any wiring at all?
Does it have a seat safety switch?

 

[JustInCase]

No, didn't hit any wiring. Seat has a safety switch but I have it bridged out. I've never seen the warning lights not to come on even when the switch was giving bother. Could be a bad ground but it's unusual the the lights work and the fuel guage illuminates if that were the case.

 

[HarleyHappy]

In that case, I would suspect the battery cables, not getting full power to the ignition switch, or a bad ignition switch.

 

[Simon C]

Do you know how to test all the cables for voltage drop on the positive side as well as the negative side.
Would be a good place to start. If unsure maybe we can help,
Simon C

 

[JustInCase]

Hi Simon, I've followed the circuit to the ignition and I'm getting power there. The relay for the starter is also switching. 12v everywhere. The starter motor itself is a little funny. It's a style I've not seen before. It has a large nut on top for the ground, a large nut on the bottom for the positive with about 3 wires connected and another small wire on an mc4 style connector going in to the main motor. I'm assuming this is a positive wire but I haven't traced it yet. If this wire is the positive from the relay then we're not getting power to it but again I'm not sure it is yet.

 

[Simon C]

Can you post a picture of the starter so we can see the cable ends. Then we can offer some suggestions.
Simon C

 

[HarleyHappy]

The starter has three hots to the positive post because one is battery, one is alternator to starter and the other is ignition positive back to the cab.
The other large one sho actually be the battery ground, I’m surprised there is not at least another ground from that post to frame but it may be somewhere else.
The smaller wire will be hot from the key switch for start, to the solenoid.
This should be 12.4 +- when turning key to start.
If the ignition fuse is not blown, you should be looking for a problem at the relay or in back of the fuse panel.

 

[Sberry]

I agree with it likely being a connection to the +. Happens all the timne at the starter nut and good chance the system power is made from that connection. Had one do something similar the other day simply tapped it at the solonoid and it takes off. We cleaned it up after the fact and works like its sposed to,,, common with sitting equipment and also on pickup trucks, seems to be a Ford thing.
Cant remember a time when that type of thing wasnt that.

 

[JustInCase]

Here is an image of the starter. As you can see there's two large poles for negative and positive. The positive had 3 wires on it from battery, alternator, not sure of the 3rd. I was assuming the small wire with the connector was coming from the ignition relay as it is the only one not wired direct.

 

[melben]

Not sure what you are saying as there is no negative post on the starter, on all those I worked on the battery negative was fastened to the frame near the battery location, the solenoid is a high current switch, and the two large posts are terminals for that switch, when the solenoid activates it contacts those two terminals and sends current to the starter motor so everything is at a positive potential. If you can see a wire coming directly from the alternator to the big starter post and a large battery cable, the 3rd small wire is probably what sends current to the rest of the system.

 

[JustInCase]

Not sure what you are saying as there is no negative post on the starter, on all those I worked on the battery negative was fastened to the frame near the battery location, the solenoid is a high current switch, and the two large posts are terminals for that switch, when the solenoid activates it contacts those two terminals and sends current to the starter motor so everything is at a positive potential. If you can see a wire coming directly from the alternator to the big starter post and a large battery cable, the 3rd small wire is probably what sends current to the rest of the system.

Apologies, my mistake. I assumed the 2nd threaded post you see if the picture was the negative. There is a braided strap attached to the mounting bolts of the starter so that must be the negative. I hooked up a set of jump leads to the starter. The negative to the body of the starter and the positive to the small wire with the connector. The rotor popped out as it should so this is obviously my feed from the relay after the ignition switch. I haven't managed to get the starter to spin regardless of how I hook it up. Would you know how that should be done?

 

[JustInCase]

The relay is reacting to the ignition switch and is sending power to the starter on the smaller wire. I just don't seem to be getting rotation.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Hook some jumper cables to it while its off and try it also give the starter a good thump you did comment it had set for while.

 

[JustInCase]

Hook some jumper cables to it while its off and try it also give the starter a good thump you did comment it had set for while.

So just hook the negative to the starter body, postive to the terminal post and loop power to the small wire to engage the rotor? What's the purpose of the 2nd post with the black wire looped off the starter to it?

 

[HarleyHappy]

Either I’m confused or you are confusing me.
There are 2 positive posts on the starter. One is for rotating the starter, the other one is for engaging the solenoid to throw out the Bendix.
The small positive wire is for providing 12v+ power to the solenoid contacts which when energized, throw out the plunger for the Bendix.
When this happens, contacts are made to turn the starter.
Generally the positive post on the starter body is for turning the starter gear.
The ground for the starter, is just the ground for the motor itself and depending on where the battery is, the battery ground goes to the starter and the braided line goes to the body of the machine and grounds the machine.
To jump the starter, hook the ground to the starter body at the braided strap post or anywhere else. Hook the positive wire of the jumper to the starter solenoid and jump the small wire to the positive post on the solenoid.
That will energize the plunger, throw out the Bendix and the starter should turn.
As always, be safe and out of the way of anything that could turn.

 

[korent]

The booted cable in the 2nd picture sends power to the brushes to rotate the armature. It must be connected to the post in order for the starter to operate. Connect the positive jumper cable to the post in the first picture and momentarily jumper from there to the small wire.

 

[Simon C]

Post Number 7 says to post a picture of cables hooked up on starter. Just leave battery negative disconnected and protected and all else can be hooked up.
HarleyHappy in post 16 explains quite well. Any more questions post picture hooked up and direction will come.
Simon C

 

[JustInCase]

Ok, I did a bit of work on this over the weekend so thanks for the help. Got the starter bench tested and after a couple of knocks of the rubber mallet it worked fine. Fit it and it didn't work so I swapped out all the fuses related to the starting sequence and got liberal with the contact cleaner. Once I did this I got my dash lights and buzzer back and it started first swing. So it looks like I had 2 issues, the first being the fuses (which were not blown but showing some corrosion) and the starter motor appeared to be a bit jammed after sitting so long.

Thanks for all the replies