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Case 40xt hydraulic hose with steel cable?

soapstoneguy

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Apr 13, 2011
Messages
121
Location
Oregon
Hey guys,
So I'm pretty sure the hose that is leaking is the one that controls my bucket tilting forward and backward. I pull the cab forward to look underneath and hydro oil all over the place. I believe I found the culprit which is (if you are sitting in the seat on your left side underneath you) a hose that is attached to a bracket (to keep it straight) which is bolted to the machine itself. When I pull the bolt out to free the bracket hydro oil starts coming out of the bolt hole, not a lot but just a little trickle. Underneath the bracket are two nuts that tighten down around the bracket to keep the hose straight. I loosened those to get the bracket out of the way. There is a good sized rubber bladder looking thing that that hose feeds in to...I can slide the hose out of the rubber bladder (which i believe is where the leak is) and when I do so there is a cable that is inside the rubber bladder that is connected to the hose. Keep in mind this hose is only about the circumference of a pinky finger. Anyway, I don't know what the heck it is as I've never seen a hydraulic hose with a cable in it like that. It feeds right into the side of the machine, I'm guessing into the hydraulic tank somewhere. When I use the controls (machine off of course) I can see the hose move and the cable goes in and out so I'm guessing it has a valve in there or something which controls the hydro oil flowing in and out etc...not sure.

Hope someone can help! :)
 

lantraxco

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Jan 1, 2009
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Elsewhen
Not a hose, parking brake cable. Rubber bladder thing is a "Boot" keeps oil in the chain case and dust out. Check your chain case oil levels, if one is over full you may have a blown drive motor seal.

Bucket tilt hydraulics I believe come off the control valve to the top of the right rear frame, down the right loader arm.
 

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
121
Location
Oregon
Not a hose, parking brake cable. Rubber bladder thing is a "Boot" keeps oil in the chain case and dust out. Check your chain case oil levels, if one is over full you may have a blown drive motor seal.

Bucket tilt hydraulics I believe come off the control valve to the top of the right rear frame, down the right loader arm.



Interesting. The machine moves just fine though, would it stop moving if it had a blown drive motor seal? Since I've noticed this problem I put hydro oil in almost everyday because it leaks out...?
 

lantraxco

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Quite often the motor will work fine, at least for a time, but if the shaft seals is bad or blown, or you have a bearing going out, the case pressure will push oil out past the seal into the chain case. The tell is if the chain case oil level is high I think that machine has a separate hydro tank?
 

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
121
Location
Oregon
Quite often the motor will work fine, at least for a time, but if the shaft seals is bad or blown, or you have a bearing going out, the case pressure will push oil out past the seal into the chain case. The tell is if the chain case oil level is high I think that machine has a separate hydro tank?



Yes, it does have a separate hydro tank. Fill right in the back there by the radiator. I'd imagine I can google how to check the chain case oil level? Thanks for the input!!
 

soapstoneguy

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Apr 13, 2011
Messages
121
Location
Oregon
Yup, pulled the plug and checked...got about 8 gallons of hydro oil that poured out of that side so we tore in to it and took the drive motor. Bringing it in to the shop tomorrow to see if they can rebuild it. Anyone know what it might cost to rebuild one of these? I'm thinking it's just a seal because the machine still rolls just fine and everything, just has the leak apparently.
 

lantraxco

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If the seal is physically blown out, usually you can see the lip where it's popped, that's from high case pressure which is either a blocked case drain line or a large internal leak inside the motor causing too much case drain flow. Just so you know the motor may need rebuilt/replaced. Might be just a weak seal though. Good luck with it!
 

willie59

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Knoxville TN
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I agree with lantraxco, if, when you take that motor apart, the shaft seal is still in shape, just worn out and leaking, probably just a bad seal. But if that seal is distorted, pushed out, rolled out, lip is blown out, you got a pressure issue, either a blocked case drain line or a motor with excessive wear internally putting pressure on that shaft seal.
 

soapstoneguy

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Apr 13, 2011
Messages
121
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Oregon
So apparently the guys put it on the bench to test it. Ran it for about 35 minutes, sprayed it off quite a few times to check for leaks and found it didn't leak at all...any guess on what else could be leaking oil in to the chain case like that? They did say after it sat for about 30 minutes there was a very small dab of oil that dripped off of it but didn't seem like enough to make them believe the seals were blown out or anything...any ideas?
 

lantraxco

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Not sure but I don't think so... looking like a restricted case drain putting excess pressure in the motor case. Of course not sure what their test setup is like if they put charge pressure in the loop and enough backpressure on the feed line to shift the hot oil shuttle valve?
 

willie59

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I agree with lantraxco, just putting it on a bench and "free wheeling it" isn't necessarily the same as fitted on the machine. One option, swap the drive motors and see if it fills the opposite chain case with oil.
 

bobcan

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Feb 22, 2012
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Cold but Sunny, Western Canada
Yup.. ^ as above, if it is not tested 'under load' then there is little chance of an accurate evaluation.. Given the pressures and flows created it would be much like testing a transmission/clutch in a vehicle, and thinking all was well, UNTIL you hooked a trailer to it again like it had when an issue showed up in the first place..

** Unless some unknown reason, the side-to-side SWAP seems the best idea ~ and as always: "Only change ONE thing at a time, to diagnose a problem.. " or most often you will be chasing your tail and wasting time.. Good Luck, hope it is a simple fix there!!
 

alrman

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Really, in a chain case, where else can oil come from?
The motors leak not so much from the seal, but the outer oring on the seal retainer.
Be certain that the bearings on the output shaft of the drive motor have not lost their preload.
Take a look at this thread.
 

soapstoneguy

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Apr 13, 2011
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Oregon
The guy said they backloaded it and everything and still didn't show signs of a leak. However, I was kind of thinking the same thing willie mentioned. I'm thinking either the shaft ring or the shaft itself might be loose causing it to leak so much oil and with the chains pulling on it when the machine is running and tires are spinning it might be pulling it just enough to cause a lot of oil to leak in. Even the Case mechanic I spoke with said 99% of the time if there is oil in the chain case it is due to the motor but apparently there is one other thing that might be the culprit. Will see what they say on Monday.
 

soapstoneguy

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Messages
121
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Really, in a chain case, where else can oil come from?
The motors leak not so much from the seal, but the outer oring on the seal retainer.
Be certain that the bearings on the output shaft of the drive motor have not lost their preload.
Take a look at this thread.


Thanks for the link to the thread alrman! Looks like I'll see if the guys can throw a seal kit on this bad boy seeing as how I don't use it a whole lot but probably only medium use. Anyone have any guess on how much it would run me to have someone put a seal kit on there? I know the kit runs about 100-150 but labor...???
 

alrman

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You only need to replace the shaft seal & the oring at the seal carrier plate - leave the rest of the motor alone.
If there is any lineal movement in the shaft, this needs to be addressed by fitting a spacer shim.
As I said earlier, the leak is usually caused by a worn oring, due to the carrier movement, not the seal itself.
The seals are not available through CNH as a part on their own (kit required) - you need to talk to a hydraulic seal supply company.
 

soapstoneguy

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Apr 13, 2011
Messages
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Oregon
So I had the guys in the shop 'repair' the drive motor. They said they didn't need to go inside the motor, just replaced the seal on the outside since it was barely dribbling any oil after being on the bench for 45mins. I put it back in the machine, ran it for about an hour, shut it off. Came out to it the next day and the hydraulic oil was low...popped off the plate to the chain case to see how it was working and when I turn the machine i see oil spilling out of the drive motor where the shaft is... Took it back out and taking it to case for them to fix it. I'm wondering though, do you guys think the shaft and bearing around the shaft is bad or is it just because they didn't replace the seals on the inside of the motor, just on the outside?
 

GaryHoff

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The xt series had bad bearings in the drive motors. They updated the drive motors, and have a new bearing kit available. Basically the drive motor bearings loose their pre-load, and the shaft moves too much. If it moves more than .004" you need new bearings.
 

apetad

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Leander, Texas
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Compact Construction Equipment Sales
The guy said they backloaded it and everything and still didn't show signs of a leak. However, I was kind of thinking the same thing willie mentioned. I'm thinking either the shaft ring or the shaft itself might be loose causing it to leak so much oil and with the chains pulling on it when the machine is running and tires are spinning it might be pulling it just enough to cause a lot of oil to leak in. Even the Case mechanic I spoke with said 99% of the time if there is oil in the chain case it is due to the motor but apparently there is one other thing that might be the culprit. Will see what they say on Monday.

Doesn't this have hydraulically released brake pin cylinder to retract brake holding pin??? A blown one of those could fill up the chaincase with oil!
 
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