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Case 350 Crawler kicking my butt

Discussion in 'Track Loaders' started by frickenbored, May 18, 2019.

  1. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    yes, I've tried starting it with ether and the return line disconnected from the pump top cover, I also tried starting it with ether and the pump top cover completely off. Still nothing.
     
  2. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    I swear, this is the same type of symptoms I have seen with a broken crankshaft.
     
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  3. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Is this your filter arraignment ? If it is, are all the parts in order ? The little round seal, spring and washer especially.
    No timing marks on the crankshaft dampener. They are on the flywheel.

    fri.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  4. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Good possibility Vetech !
    That's why I thought the timing should have been checked about five pages back in the saga of this 188.
    Especially when the two sets of timing marks are on oposite ends of the crankshaft.
     
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  5. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    These long threads are more entertaining ;)
     
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  6. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    That diagram is very close, I do have the 2 filter setup like that but I'm almost certain both filters are one piece filters, like engine oil filters. My dad actually changed the filters so I'll show him this picture tonight and see if he remembers the washer and spring. I have these style filters:

    filters.jpg
    (this is a google image, my filters are not beat up)

    As for the fuel return system, mine is very close to that. The only difference is that the return line is capped after the cylinder #4 injector and there is a t-fitting on top of the pump cover that goes back to the tank, basically the same thing shown in the picture above.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  7. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know what the timing marks on the flywheel look like? I'll check timing tonight.
     
  8. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    timing.jpg

    I found this online...so if I take the flywheel inspection cover off there should be a pointer and a set of degree lines on the actual flywheel, and the injection pump lines should be lined up at 8 degrees past cylinder #1 TDC, correct?
     
  9. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    The way "I" do it is>> line the lines up IN THE PUMP 1ST.. THEN look at the flywheel *'s..
    DUDE.!!! "PAST" TDC.. Really?? Then that would read "ATDC"..
    There isn't a diesel in N. America that fires ATDC.. U want the fuel injecting into the cylinder ON COMPRESSION STROKE.. just BEFORE it gets to the top of the cylinder.. {8* BTDC}
    THAT WAY, it explodes sending the piston shooting down..
     
  10. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    AND U HAVE TO ROTATE THE ENGINE IN THE CORRECT "NORMAL" ROTATION..
    to properly check the timing..
    Bump the key & watch the fan.. that "should be" the correct rotation of the engine..
    Shut off the fuel & remove the side cover on the pump..
    The pump is gravity fed so if u don't shut off the fuel at the tank, you'll drain it dry by removing the side cover on the pump..
    Get a STRONG flashlite & a helper.. Turn the engine till the lines line up IN THE PUMP, THEN look at the flywheel *'s..
    6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other, which way u do it.. Either set the pump lines or set the flywheel *'s first..
    BUT EITHER WAY, TAKE OFF THE VALVE COVER to be sure your on the right cylinder..{#1}
     
  11. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    Right, right...I ment before TDC just got mixed up. That's what I'll do tonight...set the pump and check where the flywheel is.
     
  12. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Here is the other filter arrangement. Be sure the stud gasket is in place.

    mark.png filters.png
     

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  13. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    So I'm pretty sure she's timed. I couldn't find any marks on the flywheel but it has them on the front crank pulley.

    20190611_192451.jpg
    20190611_184630.jpg
     
  14. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    Here's some pics of the engine...its not pretty and it's pretty much soaked in diesel fuel because of all the bleeding I've been doing...for weeks...

    20190611_185054.jpg
    Wide open intake

    20190611_185025.jpg
    20190611_185015.jpg 20190611_185035.jpg
    Someone installed this shutoff in the return line, I have no idea why but it's been there forever.

    Also here is a video of it cranking, I uploaded it to YouTube because the file was too large to post here. No I'm not dumping a ton of ether in it, the can is empty so I have to find the right angle to get the last little bit out.

     
  15. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    20190611_194920.jpg

    Also I happened to look at the bowl under the fuel shutoff just as it dripped a drop of diesel, I kept watching it and it formed a drip every 5 or so mins. You can even see the drop forming in the picture. I'm gonna order a new bowl, spring, and gasket...is this tiny drop causing the entire fuel system to fail...I dont know but at this point I'll take anything.
     
  16. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    I seriously doubt it.. but anything is possible at this point..
     
  17. frickenbored

    frickenbored Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think my next move is fix the bowl leak, replace the return line grommets, completely bleed the fuel system again, and re-assemble everything I took off and if it still doesnt start I'll start looking into a good heavy equipment mechanic.
     
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  18. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    H*LL, U GOT 5000 of'm here already.!! Lol
    Good luck.
     
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  19. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    This is a very simple engine by design. If you have the proper compression, free air into the intake, and fuel atomized at the right time...………...there is no reason it shouldn't run. One of these 3 things isn't happening. At this point I believe you should start from scratch at the beginning.
    1. Remove the hose from the intake and while cranking the engine lay your hand over the intake opening. It should have enough intake suction to feel like it will eat your hand. A good hard pull is what your looking for.
    2. Go to the exhaust side now. If you have no exhaust leaks, crank the engine again and while doing so, hold your hand over the exhaust outlet. It should build enough pressure to push your hand off for the air to escape. Since the engine wont fire this should be safe to do. If it does not, then you have compression loss through the piston rings, or the valve seats (possibly a head gasket also). Since you did a compression test and had 300 psi, the compression should be good enough to fire the fuel.
    3. By the pictures you have taken, providing the procedure was done correctly (turning of the crank in the proper rotation), it looks like your timing marks are good to go.
    4. Now to the fuel system. You HAVE to have free unrestricted flow of fuel to the injector pump (without ANY leaks in the suction side which means the fuel bowl issue will HAVE to be corrected) especially since you do not have a supply pump. Fill the fuel tank with fresh clean fuel, follow the line from the fuel bowl all the way to the injector pump. Before you do anything else, remove the bleed screw at the top of your secondary fuel filter. You should get a good amount of fuel coming out of that bleed screw with the weight of a full tank of fuel (if not, you have a restriction between that filter and the fuel tank). Once you have good full there, install the bleed screw back in its place and remove the suction line at the injector pump. You should have the same amount of fuel coming out of that line as you did at the bleed screw (if not, you have a restriction between the filter and the outlet at the pump. Before you go any further you will need to correct any issue of blockage until you have a good flow of fuel at the pump.
    5. Next step is to remove the bleed plug on your pump. In your injector pump pics it is the one with the copper washer under it. You should get fuel from there although it will be a lot less, but it should be air bubble free. Reinstall the bleed plug back in the pump. At this point we need to move to the injectors.
    6. Unscrew the injector lines at each injector 3/4-1 full turn, then tap the injector line to make sure the line isn't still seated in the injector cup. Pull the engine throttle lever into full fuel, then crank the engine about 15 seconds. Fuel should SQUIRT from each connection. Im talking SQUIRT, not dribble. As each line starts to squirt fuel, once the fuel is air free, tighten that line...…...and do so through all 4 injectors. The fuel system should be bled of air at this point.

    OK...…..if this engine doesn't star and run at this point, SOMETHING ELSE is going on to prevent it. I have listed other things to try and check below.
    1. 1st thing I would try is to install a 12V electric supply pump in the suction line between the fuel bowl and the 1st primary fuel filter. All this will do is ensure that you have supply fuel, but will also build a bit more pressure into the injector pump. This is not necessarily a proper fix and if the engine starts with it on it could mean your injector pump is at fault.
    2. Gain access to where you can see the flywheel and the front crank pulley at the same time. You will need to move one end or the other (pully or flywheel) and see if they rotate together. You only need slight movement (say one starter ring gear tooth) and you will need to move it in both directions. What you are looking for is one end (again, pulley or flywheel) moving with out the other end moving. It could be very slight and I would usually do this with a dial indicator on both. This would tell me whether the crankshaft is still in one piece as designed, or the possibility of it being broken.
    3. Drain the engine oil. Look for really fine particles of metal in the oil, especially on the drain plug. Use a new, or clean bucket......they can be very small and difficult to see.

    If nothing above has got running or has figured out the problem, it is time to throw in the towel and contact someone with more troubleshooting experience on this type of engine and fuel system. Doing anything else could be a huge waste of money and time. The absolute WORST thing you could do is start throwing expensive parts at this hoping to get a result. You HAVE to know what the problem is to properly fix this at a reasonable cost.

    I hope this helps!...………….but unless someone can add other thoughts, there is nothing else I can do here. This is the simplest explanation I can give.;)
     
  20. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Daaaam.. U should write a diagnostic manual..
    Everyone should print that out & hang it in their shop.!!!
    NICE...
     
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