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Car Crusher with JD 6068

Discussion in 'Crushers' started by Revolution Repair, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    I am having an issue with a Granutech Big Mac car crusher with a JD 6068 engine. The crusher will operate normal for around 20min then when the "crush flat" or "crush jog" button is pressed the engine rpm shoots up to target rpm and then falls down to 1600-1700rpm. Then once the crush cycle is complete it will drop to target idle. Press either crush cycle buttons and the conditions repeat. This engine is fitted with a Stanadyne DE10 injection pump. It is my understanding that it has 2 engine speeds High Idle and Idle. So where would this mid-range rpm be coming from?

    This piece of machinery basically has 2 separate systems, the crusher side and the engine side. The only communication between the two is engine speed. The crusher calls for High Idle and the engine ECM complies. Or in this case it doesn't lol. I was not familiar with the DE10 pumps, but after some reading I see the ECM controls the Fuel Control Solenoid. What I don't understand is what voltages should I see at the sol? Is it consistent for the given rpm? Like off 0v, crank/idle is 6v and full throttle is 13v?

    I guess this machine was availible with a Cummins or JD engine. I wish it had the Cummins, I have software for that. That said, the JD engine runs very well.

    Thanks guys for any help or suggestions you provide.
     
  2. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    I should have mentioned that all engine vitals are good. I first thought it was temp issue due to proper op for the first 20min.
     
  3. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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  4. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    Thanks for that link! The fuel temp sensor could possibly be causing the abnormal op. This engine seems to have only CLT and a IAT sensor. Every sensor on this engine is a 2 wire except for a throttle emulator in the engine control panel. It appears to be the only 5v reference sensor in the system. I don't have a pin out of the ECM connector and the harness is pretty tight to get any accurate back probing done on all but the perimeter wires. The emulator seems to function correctly. At Idle it runs about 2.6v and High Idle it is at 4.7v and when the engine acts up it is still showing 4.7 out of the emulator. After the crusher completes its cycle the emulator drops back to 2.6v and the goes back to Idle. I think my problem is between the ECM and the Fuel Control Solenoid, but I am unsure what voltages I should be seeing. Thanks for your help Hoss!
     
  5. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    If I'm understanding the stanadyne manual correctly, that solenoid is on/off, no voltage modulation. And it's on and off for EACH INJECTION, so 1000 cycles a minute at 2000 RPM. Your problem is either in the ECM or the injection pump. Check the fuel pressure to the injection pump, the return for air, and the internal pump pressure if you can find the procedure (read that last night, can't remember sorry). Check the IAT and coolant sensors resistance cold and hot, sometimes they're the same sensor, and even interchangeable with something you have laying around to check the range or swap out for testing purposes.

    Most likely it's in the ECM, but maybe a setting and not a problem exactly, like an "economy" setting to save fuel?
     
  6. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    Thanks for your comment Delmer. That's kinda how I see the solenoid operation too. On or off. I do find it difficult to believe that the solenoid can pull the retract and extend the plunger that quickly, it may though. I see the solenoid/plunger as the device that controls port open or port closed. Port open allows the cavity to fill with fuel and the cam pressurizes the fuel fuel for injection. Maybe I am wrong on that. Thanks for your input, keeps my mind working through this issue. To here others give their opinions keeps it fresh.

    Thanks Delmer!
     
  7. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Nope, they said it's "spill, pump, spill", so the solenoid closes to determine the start of injection, and opens to determine the end of injection. Almost a distributer type unit injector, the injection pump has no timing or governing control at all.
     
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  8. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    That is one busy solenoid. That ECM must have one hell of a driver to control 7,200 cycles per minute at an engine rpm of 2400. I can't believe the ECM doesn't have overheating issues. Then again maybe it does.
     
  9. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Looking at the manual some more... I don't think the problem is between the ECM and the solenoid. If the problem was there, the engine wouldn't run since the DE pump has no controls. "...Governor regulation, high and low idle speeds, throttle progression and injection timing are all sensed and controlled by the ECM …"

    Therefore your problem is the ECM or its input sensors. As temperature seems to be related, perhaps a sensor input is lost and the ECM reverts to a "limp mode"
     
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  10. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    I am thinking it's the ECM as well. Since I don't have John Deere software I am having the local dealer (130mi away) come out. I have CAT, Cummins, Detroit, International, etc. but not John Deere. There stuff is expensive. It sucks not having any documentation. That is the biggest struggle for an independent. Oh well, I will let you guys know what we find out with software. Thanks for all your comments so far. You guys are great!
     
  11. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    The de10 solonoid is basically an electronic injector. It is controlled from the ecu by variable pulse width. PWM. The engine is likely running in a derate condition rather than just incorrect engine rpm. Spn 1569 fmi 31 fuel derate will be present along with at least on other code.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
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  12. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    Also the throttle would be variable between idle and WOT. Having only high and low throttle will only come from throttle control inputs to the ecu.
     
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  13. Revolution Repair

    Revolution Repair Member

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    Thanks for the comments everyone. The JD guy was there Friday. I showed up to explain crusher operation to him and assist in any way possible. Since he was there with his service truck, I got kinda western with the harness at the ecu. I figured if we needed to repair pins he would have the stuff. I could make the engine react to harder than I would usually wiggle/pull test. The harness was removed from the ecu and all wires appeared sound. He had a test ecu with him so we installed it and tried to repeat condition. The engine operated as intended for much longer than it did with the original ecu. It was decided to install a new ecu which he brought with him. So far I have not heard back from the crusher operator so all must be good. Thanks for all the info and help on this one.