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Can someone explain this

lantraxco

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Jan 1, 2009
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Elsewhen
How can I lose an axle if I'm going to weld up the front idler? This is the biggest issue...other issue I found is small radiator leak..I ran this machine for about 1 1/2 hrs and it had plenty power in forward and reverse.
As for a $1500 machine???? well I'm not sure the poster has any knowledge of heavy equipment machinery or is qualified.

You can lose the bearings on anything that rotates, and that idler has been rotating off and on for decades. That's why we're advocating a new idler assembly, or good used takeoff. You might put in all the time and effort to weld that up and then a month later find it's turned into a cow bell. Or not. YMMV

Yeah, what Dickjr said, lol
 

JS300

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Jan 11, 2015
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455
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Texas
Occupation
Power Plant and Cattle
I think how you go about the repair depends how how much you plan to use the dozer. If for a couple hundred hours of personal use a year I would say repair it cheap as it breaks. If you really need it to run you would be better off fixing it right wich always seems to run into alot of money. Like I said in a previous post I just fixed a similar deal. I really needed to take an extra day and about another $1,200 to repair it correctly but I only plan on using the dozer for another 100 hours or so this year. Hopefully I can find the time to repair it right this winter. I would find some used parts and slap it back together undercarriage work is tuff, mainly due to all the old fasteners not wanting to come loose. I'm learning that if you don't like to spend money on repairs dozers aren't for you, especially if you have to hire the repairs out. One thing to keep in mind is what it would cost to hire a dozer operator to work for you. In my area a 100 hp dozer is around $125 an hour. At that rate you can work the repair cost out of a machine pretty quick....if you have the place to do it. Just take your time and enjoy doing the repairs as I'm sure this won't be the last one.
 

StxRancher

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Jun 9, 2016
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61
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South Texas
Thanks, my dozer is purely for personal use. My livelihood is in the healthcare industry..I like to tinker with things and give them the tlc they need..an easy way out is to spend $7k and put new tracks, front idler etc, but that's not what I prefer to do right now..in that case, I'd run it til tracks fell off..to me it's fun and a hobby..I enjoy welding and I'm a third generation welder, so my belief is "if its human made,a man can fix it"
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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WI
"if its human made,a man can fix it"

Or a man can spend an hour searching online, and swap out that old junk for a used part that was designed for that machine, rather than "trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".

As for value, there's a big difference between what a desperate novice will pay, and what a veteran WOULDN'T pay for a solid older fixer upper. Fair market value is somewhere in between. Just because it was sold/purchased at auction, doesn't mean it can't go for more than it's worth. The way I look at it, half the stuff at auction sells for more than it's worth, and half less.
 
Last edited:

Don k

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Apr 23, 2015
Messages
197
Location
bandera, tx.
A few years ago I needed a front idler for my 450C. I shopped around on the internet and found a good used one for around $350. If you are set on welding your up first see how much you are going to have to built it up and how much time and cost it will take you. But first take it apart and check the inside where the bearings and races are. If it is wallered out forget it.
 

d9gdon

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Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,517
Location
central texas
Both tracks are doing this, I'm betting it's got rails from another brand of machine that was a "close" fit and they are just too wide across the pins. Look at the overhang on the idler and roller.

Yep, I think you're right. I went back and looked and those rails don't look like they belong to the tractor. That idler rib has been chewed off on one side indicating at some point that the track was not running true.

Here's some parts machines:

http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...ction-equipment/manufacturer/deere/model/450c

I've been to the 3 in Texas and they're OK to deal with. They'll have most any parts you would need and save you a lot of money with used stuff.
 

oarwhat

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Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
822
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buffalo,n.y.
The master pin on that old of a dozer will have a dimple or small hole on the end. You have to beat or press it out. Oh I just thought that won't help you ends are chewed up. Are they chewed up on both sides?
 

redneckracin

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May 19, 2010
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574
Location
Western PA
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Civil Engineer
The master pin on that old of a dozer will have a dimple or small hole on the end. You have to beat or press it out. Oh I just thought that won't help you ends are chewed up. Are they chewed up on both sides?

Correct if the tracks are correct for that machine. They did not bolt those 550 tracks together with longer track pad bolts. I spent some serious sledge time getting my old ones beat out between grinder runs trying to get all the weld cut off! Personally, I would be looking for a new idler and new rails at a minimum. Once you get the track split I'd start looking at bottom rollers to see if any of them are OEM that can be refilled and check to see if the bearings are any good in them.
 

StxRancher

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Jun 9, 2016
Messages
61
Location
South Texas
Well I've figured out the problem. I need 10 bottom rollers and an idler sprocket. Im going to replace rear sprocket too (has some teeth broken). Those bottom roller bolts are very stubborn. Im having to heat them and use impact.
 

Nige

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By "idler sprocket" are you referring to the front idler that you have been disassembling recently..?

TBH I would not recommend you replace the drive sprockets because of the broken teeth until you clear up the doubts raised by others who are not sure that the tracks currently installed are the correct ones for the machine. If you simply replace the sprockets for new ones they could be destroyed in short order by tracks that could be of a different pitch to that of the sprockets. If the tracks are in fact wrong it may be that they have caused the broken sprocket teeth, so replacing both sprockets and tracks would be the only way to solve the problem long-term.
 

StxRancher

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Jun 9, 2016
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Nope, I have measured the rails and according to the service manual they are within spec. Also if the tracks were wrong, i would think both sprockets would be broken up. IMO the previous owner was really bad about maintenance.
 

Nige

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From the photo in post #51 on a previous page it appears as though the bushes are significantly worn externally. I have no idea if this photo is from the side with the damaged sprocket or not.

Just out of interest what measurements did you take on the rails that showed they are within spec..?

Could you post some photos of the sprockets on both sides of the tractor so that we can see the condition of them..?
 

Dickjr.

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Mar 24, 2011
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Kentucky
How have you determined the bushings are good and the pitch is correct? Have you measured across 4 links to see what the wear is? I agree with Nige the bushes look to be worn.
 

StxRancher

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Jun 9, 2016
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61
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South Texas
Yes, as in my post #72 the measurement is 25.53" which puts me right at 70%..as for the culprit,I pulled rock guard off and I could see where rails were rubbing..the rollers were shot...so I'm going to replace all rollers, front idler and sprocket..I'm not a business or do dozing for a living, so I can't anticipate thousands of hours..some of you are perfectionists and that's great, but this machine is old and I think I'll get my use out of it
 

Nige

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..some of you are perfectionists and that's great, but this machine is old and I think I'll get my use out of it
Sorry to disappoint you, but we work on yellow iron for a living, it's hard to be perfect in that line of work...... what we are trying to do is to help you establish the condition of the complete undercarriage on your machine and hopefully make sure that the route you're proposing to go on replacing parts is not going to come back and bite you in the a$$ at some future point because of some factor that wasn't considered.
 

Nige

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When writing post #77 above I forgot to mention that if as you say the pitch extension on the current track links is around 70% then installing new drive sprockets that are designed to work with links that have 0% pitch extension in them is likely to cause very rapid initial wear of the sprocket teeth until the bushes on the current "extended pitch" links fall into the sprocket teeth correctly. You may be able to live with that but I mention it in passing anyway.

The normal procedure to solve this problem provided the track link surface wear is within acceptable limits would be to turn all the track pins & bushes 180 degrees to bring the track pitch back to specification. At that point the teeth on new sprockets would marry up perfectly with the track pitch, if that makes sense.
 

StxRancher

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Nige I really appreciate and value your input. I totally understand where you are coming from, but I can live with an initial rapid wear of a $130 sprocket, vs the economics of turning the pins and bushings..and from what I have read for my machine its more feasible just to replace with new rails. I dont need to do that just yet. I think with the new roller, idler and sprocket I can get plenty use out of it. I found shale rock stuck in some rollers and tension spring, so I am under the assumption that prob something like that caused teeth to break sometime back. Thanks again!
 
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