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Buying red diesel

colson04

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
2,057
Location
Delton, Michigan
Here you can buy it at certain pumps with a credit card, but not very many places. Most have it delivered. The cardlock has video cameras. If they see you pumping it into a truck, they will ask you not to come back.

I was working for an excavation contractor and saw clear fuel in the genset I had apart. I asked him why and he said that he has no red diesel on the property, that way the hired help does not put red into a truck. He does the thing where you get the tax money back at the end of the year, instead.

We have 2000 gallons of off road diesel storage at our farm, and 500 gallons of road diesel for our trucks. Never fails, there is always that one new guy that pulls up to fuel his truck for the day and uses the off road diesel. To be honest, we've never pumped it out when it happens, and we've never had our tanks dipped the couple times we've been stopped by DOT either. It doesn't happen daily, but a couple times a year, someone does it.
 

Spud_Monkey

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No it doesn’t. Farm use has a very specific definition in the tax code.


Who Qualifies for Agricultural and Timber Exemptions?
  • If you are a farmer, rancher or timber producer engaged in one of the activities listed below, you qualify for tax exemption on the purchase of certain items used to produce your agricultural and timber products for sale.

  • All purchasers, including non-Texas residents, must have a valid agricultural and timber registration number (ag/timber number) issued by the Comptroller to claim exemption from Texas tax.

  • If you do not have a valid ag/timber number, you must pay tax to retailers on your purchases.

  • Your business type must be listed below to qualify for tax exemption on certain items or for an ag/timber number.
Which Activities Qualify?
  • farming or ranching for the purpose of raising agricultural products for sale;
  • timber production (including contract logging);

  • feedlot operation;

  • commercial fish farm operation;

  • bee keeping;

  • custom harvesting;

  • crop dusting (as defined by 14 CFR Section 137.3);

  • growing plants for sale in a commercial nursery;

  • a veterinary business that makes farm or ranch calls;

  • Future Farmers of America or 4-H; or

  • teaching an agricultural vocational course.
Nowhere in that does it say anything about fuel. I don't see DOT showing up at your job site dipping tanks on excavators.

I've read that you can run diesel in a kerosene torpedo heater and those classic circle kerosene heaters. It sounds like you guys are suggesting similarly. I've also read some folks do a mix of kerosene and normal pump diesel. Anyone doing that? Assuming a have decent ventilation can I do it in my shop? Also, if fuel oil is basically diesel do I need decent ventilation?

Sorry to change subjects...
I run diesel all the time in my torpedo heater, never had kerosene in them, they can be adjusted if the mixture is off since not everyone lives at the factory settings altitude.
 

DMiller

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Feb 21, 2010
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Hermann, Missouri
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Cheap "old" Geezer
Once used down to negligible in a truck tank red dye does dissipate to next to not detectable, HOWEVER, it is when a Commercial shop does maintenance and fuel filters have red dyed fabric or paper they are "Supposed" to report, good luck to the State officials in that.
 

Birken Vogt

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Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
I've read that you can run diesel in a kerosene torpedo heater and those classic circle kerosene heaters. It sounds like you guys are suggesting similarly. I've also read some folks do a mix of kerosene and normal pump diesel. Anyone doing that? Assuming a have decent ventilation can I do it in my shop? Also, if fuel oil is basically diesel do I need decent ventilation?

Sorry to change subjects...

I used to run diesel in a torpedo but it did not like it very well. Strange burning and the spark plug built up a stalactite over time. I added a cup or two of gasoline to the mix and it burned very clean after that. I always did it in the closed shop but it was drafty and doors always up and down. Not sure I would run one it a tight shop, too stinky.
 

77Ford

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Feb 24, 2021
Messages
90
Location
Missouri
In Missouri you can buy red fuel but they only remove the federal part of the tax and you have to apply for a refund for the state (or vice versa). So you save about 24 cents a gallon I think. They have it pumps at the stations no questions asked.
 

bdog1234

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Mar 29, 2013
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USA
Nowhere in that does it say anything about fuel. I don't see DOT showing up at your job site dipping tanks on excavators.

I am not saying you can’t use red in heavy equipment I know you can what I am saying is when you buy it I don’t think you can say it is farm use or use your AG number to buy it if it clearly isn’t used for the listed qualified AG purposes.

Some people farm and buy thousands of gallons of red diesel for their tractors and I am sure they fill up their heavy equipment with it from time to time as well and that is probably ok.

What I am saying is if a person isn’t a farmer or rancher at all and does nothing ag related and just owns and operates heavy equipment I don’t think they want to be filling out the paperwork claiming they are a farmer and the fuel is for ag purposes. There has to be some other legal way to get it without fraudulently claiming to be a farmer.
 

aighead

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Dayton, OH
Interesting Birken, thanks. Maybe I'll try diesel with some gas (literally a cup or two?). I'm definitely worried about fumes and soot, but I also have some drafts and I have a pretty nice little exhaust fan waiting for me to put somewhere for this very experiment, I've just been hesitant to cut any holes in the side of my house. I may be able to jam the fan in a window temporarily.
 

Spud_Monkey

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I am not saying you can’t use red in heavy equipment I know you can what I am saying is when you buy it I don’t think you can say it is farm use or use your AG number to buy it if it clearly isn’t used for the listed qualified AG purposes.

Some people farm and buy thousands of gallons of red diesel for their tractors and I am sure they fill up their heavy equipment with it from time to time as well and that is probably ok.

What I am saying is if a person isn’t a farmer or rancher at all and does nothing ag related and just owns and operates heavy equipment I don’t think they want to be filling out the paperwork claiming they are a farmer and the fuel is for ag purposes. There has to be some other legal way to get it without fraudulently claiming to be a farmer.
Download AP-197 form from https://comptroller.texas.gov and turn that in.
 

Bluox

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
1,960
Location
WA state
I am not saying you can’t use red in heavy equipment I know you can what I am saying is when you buy it I don’t think you can say it is farm use or use your AG number to buy it if it clearly isn’t used for the listed qualified AG purposes.

Some people farm and buy thousands of gallons of red diesel for their tractors and I am sure they fill up their heavy equipment with it from time to time as well and that is probably ok.

What I am saying is if a person isn’t a farmer or rancher at all and does nothing ag related and just owns and operates heavy equipment I don’t think they want to be filling out the paperwork claiming they are a farmer and the fuel is for ag purposes. There has to be some other legal way to get it without fraudulently claiming to be a farmer.
From what I read all that says farms are not required to pay sales tax on anything .
So you can buy and use red diesel and pay sales tax, but I would make a phone call to be sure.
Bad Bob.
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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WI
I suppose the federal tax is what you can claim back if you burn taxed fuel for farm use. State tax would be separate, and the state sets the laws, so farm might be exempt, and off road construction might pay state tax.
 

cfherrman

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Hays, Kansas
We have 2000 gallons of off road diesel storage at our farm, and 500 gallons of road diesel for our trucks. Never fails, there is always that one new guy that pulls up to fuel his truck for the day and uses the off road diesel. To be honest, we've never pumped it out when it happens, and we've never had our tanks dipped the couple times we've been stopped by DOT either. It doesn't happen daily, but a couple times a year, someone does it.

A truck that has farm use on the side could have a dead hooker strapped to the hood drive straight through town hitting every parked car and flip off the sheriff on the way out, everyone would just wave.
 

Jonas302

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Jan 4, 2015
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1,197
Location
mn
Interesting Birken, thanks. Maybe I'll try diesel with some gas (literally a cup or two?). I'm definitely worried about fumes and soot, but I also have some drafts and I have a pretty nice little exhaust fan waiting for me to put somewhere for this very experiment, I've just been hesitant to cut any holes in the side of my house. I may be able to jam the fan in a window temporarily.

Kerosene tends to burn cleaner in a torpedo heater than #2 diesel yes they can be tuned and adjusted and you really should make sure its running the best it can if its running inside for any amount of time it seems maybe the ulsd diesel doesn't smell as bad as the old days either way it pumps a lot of fumes and will kill you

Where you really need kerosene is when you pull the torpedo heater out of the service truck at -35f and hope that it will light
 

DMiller

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Feb 21, 2010
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Hermann, Missouri
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Cheap "old" Geezer
Prefer K1 to Diesel in fuel heaters, much cleaner. Kind of like Dual Fuel Coleman lanterns, will make light on Gasoline, work abundantly better on White Gas Coleman fuel, or VN Era M35 Deuce and Halfs with that multifuel burn anything so long as blended to the cheat sheets, would ALMOST get out of its own way on mix of Gear Oil, Hyd or Trans Oil with a minimal amount of Diesel and Gas. All were basic same design, Continental, Hercules or White engines.
 

aighead

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Dayton, OH
Aaaaannnddd this is why I didn't put any diesel in there yet... A million different responses! I love it and trust them all but unfortunately for my wallet tend to lean towards the not suffocating side of things.

Thanks, as always, guys.
 

Birken Vogt

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Grass Valley, Ca
Aaaaannnddd this is why I didn't put any diesel in there yet... A million different responses! I love it and trust them all but unfortunately for my wallet tend to lean towards the not suffocating side of things.

I would just put kero in it if you can, the only reason I put diesel in it was because that is what I had at the time. But with the gas mixed in and shop closed up I did not notice any abnormal fumes and I am still around to talk about it.
 
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