Buy the flatbed with knuckleboom, or dump without knuckleboom

[John V]

Hey all, I could use some advice on buying a medium duty (under 26k) truck for occasionally hauling logs for my sawmill business, as well as occasionally hauling fill dirt for a property I'm developing. Ideal find would be a ~16' flatbed dump with cab-behind knuckleboom. with a set of ramps, I could also use this to haul my skid steer and tow my sawmill to jobs as well. Not the easiest to come by on my shoestring budget.

An ebay listing accepted my offer on a 1991 International, single axle 26k gvwr with a 5 speed manual with air brakes. Cab behind knuckleboom and 16ft flatbed (no dump). I'd have to drive 10 hrs out of state to get it. Seems to be in good running shape, knuckleboom works, etc.

Issues I'm foreseeing with it: it's a 5 speed and I live in the Western NC mountains. Since I'd be hauling 26k and under, do you think the dt466+5 speed will handle this? Is it feasible/cost effective to swap rearends to a 2 speed rear?

Second: what would be expected cost be to add a scissor hoist to the flatbed? I wouldn't need a pump as I could plumb it off the PTO already on the truck. Attached is a picture of the flatbed... hopefully it's already rigid enough to handle being a dump.


The other option would be to pursue a more local 1985-1995 F700 flatbed dump, those seem to go for about $5-8k around here, with 2 speed rears. Then I'd need to find a knuckleboom, cut the bed shorter, and mount the flatbed. Not sure which is more feasible to end up with the ideal truck.

 

[CM1995]

John I have a 1999 4700 DT466 with a 5 speed, 26K GVW. Good truck but it's slow - 60 MPH down hill on the Interstate slow.. My truck is geared low, I'm not sure of the axle ratio but it has plenty of low speed torque. It's an old welding/gas supply truck with a lift gate that we've built into a service truck.

 

[Old Doug]

Unless the IH is almost free it would be cheaper to find what you need already rigged up the way you need it. Be careful of fords with HYD brakes.

 

[mowingman]

Have you checked out treetrader.com online? I get their catalog every month and it has dozens of trucks like you want. Prices are all over the place, but individuals who are selling are almost always cheaper than the dealers who advertise. Don't know your budget, but there are lots of knuckleboom trucks with dumps listed throughout the magazine and online site.
Jeff

 

[John V]

Appreciate the feedback so far. I would be getting it for $4500. 123k miles, it’s a Bronx NY (possibly municipal) truck, so hours could be quite high, I don’t know. I would be willing to bet this one is also geared pretty low since it’s a city truck. Could be fine for me as I don’t have expect going more than an hour or so through back country roads. Crawling up i26 or i40 would be interesting though...

I’ll give that a look, wasn’t aware of that classified. I’ve just been checking Craigslist, Facebook, a little bit of eBay, and occasionally proxibid (the auction fees normally make these not a great deal).

 

[Jonas302]

Well your first problem is when the seller accepts your offer you already bought the truck

Pretty good chance it will have deep gearing and be running wide open at 55-60 we have run plenty of tandem dumps with 466 and alisons

If your resourceful that bed can probably dump you wont really know until you get under and check it out

 

[NepeanGC]

I had an 2005 4300, dt466 and a 6 speed, geared low and it was okay in the flat land. It would tow a 30k trailer no problem, just not very fast. It didn't like hills though. Simple truck though, and easy to get parts.

 

[crane operator]

Well your first problem is when the seller accepts your offer you already bought the truck

I thought that was the way it works too. It says "legal binding to purchase", but some people don't understand ritchie bros auctions either.

Anyways, if I was buying the knuckleboom and flatbed, it wouldn't be that hard to make a dump for it. I think I would make a set of guides and something like a hook lift small dumpster. Use the knuckleboom to drag it on the flatbed, and use the knuckleboom to dump it, have the dumpster hinge on the rear of the flatbed. Best of both worlds. Dumpster and flatbed.

 

[John V]

If I were to find me a two speed rear end (there are a couple for sale in my area for the $300-800 range), would that alleviate much of my issues, and at least let me cruise easily at 65 unloaded?

 

[John V]

Interesting idea. I guess it’ll depend on if the flatbed is already strong enough to be a dump bed. If so, I could hinge it in the rear line a normal dump bed, and use the crane to lift the front until I have time/money to put a scissor hoist. I would imagine a truck this size with the knuckle boom would have a curb weight of 15k, so I’d only have a max 5.5ton payload on the bed.

 

[NepeanGC]

I doubt you'll have any trouble doing 65 unloaded, even without the 2 speed rear end.

 

[terex herder]

You are trying to cross a bridge long before you get there. Fetch your purchase, put some logs on it, and take it for a drive. You may find other things about the truck that make you decide to resell it.

 

[Mike Van]

John, not sure how you made out here, i'm a little late with some comments. 10 years ago, faced with a similar situation, i'm in Ct. I bought a 1974 Chevy C60 just east of St Louis, had a 15 ft dump grain body on it. Flew out there & drove it home, 50 mph all the way, 10 mpg. I found a Hiab knckelboom that would pick 5000 lbs down in Va., drove the round trip in a day, 850 miles in. my F350. I cut 3 ft off the front of the grain body, leaving 12 ft. Mounted the Hiab in there.

 

[Andy1845c]

I have a truck very much what you’re describing. Flatbed dump with a 9k pound knuckle boom on it. It’s got a little bitty Cummins 5.9 in it and an Eaton 9 speed. It’s no powerhouse but did fine with that load of logs. It will do 65 on the highway empty but that’s top speed.

Adding a dump or knuckle boom could be fairly easy or could be hard. Depends on what you find for parts and how good a fabricator you are.

 

[Sberry]

I am bumping this up as am interested in this very scheme.

 

[Mike Van]

I'll keep it going too - A little over a month ago, I had to change the RF tire on mine - Old one was separating it's plys & had some blisters on it. 9.00 x 20 old style bias ply on a 1974 10 hole lock ring wheel. I've done these since the 60's when I first went to work in a garage. Most places won't do them today, and you are s.o.l. as there isn't a radial replacement wheel that I know of. This one was a bear, the inside of the tire was stuck hard to the tube, which was stuck to the liner. Easy part was breaking the bead, used the edge of the bucket on the old loader. I had to grind the right tip on one of the several wrecking bars I have to get the lock ring off. This job took me the better part of a day, and being almost 70 now, it hurt. New tire & tube came from ebay, free shipping on a 70lb tire from Texas, how do they do that? At the end of the day, with 4 2" ratchet binders on it, I inflated it slowly, and it's been running fine since.

 

[mitch504]

I'll keep it going too - A little over a month ago, I had to change the RF tire on mine - Old one was separating it's plys & had some blisters on it. 9.00 x 20 old style bias ply on a 1974 10 hole lock ring wheel. I've done these since the 60's when I first went to work in a garage. Most places won't do them today, and you are s.o.l. as there isn't a radial replacement wheel that I know of. This one was a bear, the inside of the tire was stuck hard to the tube, which was stuck to the liner. Easy part was breaking the bead, used the edge of the bucket on the old loader. I had to grind the right tip on one of the several wrecking bars I have to get the lock ring off. This job took me the better part of a day, and being almost 70 now, it hurt. New tire & tube came from ebay, free shipping on a 70lb tire from Texas, how do they do that? At the end of the day, with 4 2" ratchet binders on it, I inflated it slowly, and it's been running fine since.

Actually, you have two options on a radial replacement for a 9.00-20. A 9.00R-20 is a tube type radial that goes on your same rim, and a 10R-22.5 is an exact match in a tubeless.

I have a new 10R-22.5 I would have given you, but you'd have to pay shipping and find a rim. I bought a bunch of new tires at auction and got one of them.

 

[Mike Van]

Mitch - I didn't know a radial could go on that old 1974 rim? The rims are 10 hole, I don't think a 22.5 rim is out there with 10 holes in it.

 

[mitch504]

Yep, and there are lots of 22.5s on 10 hole rims. Is it stud piloted (rear wheel takes an inner and outer nut), or hub piloted (1 nut with a washer made on)?

 

[Mike Van]

I'll take a pic of one Mitch, not up to par on all the terminology -