Bobcat T770 or Cat 297D

[PCL]

Looking to purchase either one of these two machines. I will use the machine for mainly dirt work in the summer and snow removal in the winter. I know the MTL will have a bit better traction in the snow than the CTL (Will have winter tracks for CTL) but not sure if the added traction of the MTL is worth the durability concern? Wanted to get some reviews from people who have tried these machines and see how you liked them. Both machines are in the ball park price wise (Within $2,000 of each other). Both dealers are good to deal with and have good support. Thanks in advance.

 

[Canadian_digger]

What kind of attachment will you be using for snow removal? And are you doing contracts or just your own?

 

[Shimmy1]

Run them both for a day. Make sure you get in and out of the cab at least 100 times. Fill a 5 gallon pail full of gravel and practice coming up to the pail with the corners of your loader bucket. Make sure you do it with both forward/backward travel and side to side. Put the loader halfway up and try and back through a gate or into a shop door. Get back to us with the results.opcorn

 

[PCL]

What kind of attachment will you be using for snow removal? And are you doing contracts or just your own?

Will be using a 96" snow bucket. Would look into getting something larger in the future. I do quite a bit of my own land along with a few contracts.

Run them both for a day. Make sure you get in and out of the cab at least 100 times. Fill a 5 gallon pail full of gravel and practice coming up to the pail with the corners of your loader bucket. Make sure you do it with both forward/backward travel and side to side. Put the loader halfway up and try and back through a gate or into a shop door. Get back to us with the results.opcorn

Thanks for this. Getting in and out of the Cat was somewhat awkward. Visibility was one of the concerns I had with the Cat, the wiper motor blocks quite a bit of your vision to the bucket and of course the rear visibility is not good at all. Didn't get much chance to try the Bobcat yet other than sit in it but did get to try the Cat for a day. Thinking my best bet will be to look into the Bobcat further.

 

[KSSS]

The rear visibility in the CAT is worse than not good, it doesn't exist. That said the MTL wont be beat in the snow, even with a CTL with Polar tracks. Ideally if your primarily a dirt contractor, I would get the machine that would work best in the dirt which will be the CTL, then find a used MTL or ASV for Winter work. They can be had pretty cheap.

 

[pafarmer]

Rear fisability on all of my CAT CTL's is the best I have ever used and I have owned every brand on the market at one tine OT another in my lifetime. All of my CAT's are equipped with the optional backup camera...no worries at all if you are using the camera. Perfect vision always ! I plow with a 96 inch power angle blade on my 299XHP and my 259d machines. Both are highly capable of pushing any amount of snow you can put in front of them with no issues...we run snowmobile studs in our CTzl's that done commercial plowing. Works pretty good. I have run the polar tracks as well. No rubber tracked machine is great in icy condition regardless of brand or make but can get the job done easy enough with a good operator.

 

[KSSS]

The camera works fine when it is not snowing, dusty or the sun hits in just right. Without the camera there is zero visibility except for gazing at the Big Dipper. The CTLs can push snow until your on a polished surface, than not so much. The MTL works much better in this application. That nonsteel belt struggles in some applications but is perfect for snow removal. That's is my experience anyway.

 

[PCL]

That was pretty much the only reason why I was considering a MTL was for the winter as I could tell there is a size-able difference in traction between it and my machine with polar tracks. Thanks for the input everyone it is helpful.

 

[warbird]

I just come out of bobcat [sjs], may be I had a lemon but the cat self leveling bucket up and down that works, ride control that I would not go without and return to dig. it takes a little getting used to getting in and out but after a week its fine. I sure like not getting soaked with fuel every time I fill up too, let along soaking the air condition compresser every time mine would shoot fuel out 5 foot every time. I cant see out the back of any of them but the camera sure is nice. another thing is the floor mat can be picked up and dumped, which is nice. I cant beleave I went the last 9 years with bobcat, there is no comparision to cat that's my .02 . last bc had 300 hours when I traded and 75 hp my cat is also 75 hp and it not even close. lol for sure stay away from doosan

 

[pafarmer]

I just come out of bobcat [sjs], may be I had a lemon but the cat self leveling bucket up and down that works, ride control that I would not go without and return to dig. it takes a little getting used to getting in and out but after a week its fine. I sure like not getting soaked with fuel every time I fill up too, let along soaking the air condition compresser every time mine would shoot fuel out 5 foot every time. I cant see out the back of any of them but the camera sure is nice. another thing is the floor mat can be picked up and dumped, which is nice. I cant beleave I went the last 9 years with bobcat, there is no comparision to cat that's my .02 . last bc had 300 hours when I traded and 75 hp my cat is also 75 hp and it not even close. lol for sure stay away from doosan

It's about time I got a likeminded friend(ally) here....thank you Warbird for singing CAT's praises....

 

[warbird]

I forgot to mention about the gps that's on them. cat knows were the machine is all time and how many hours are on it [theft or repo] and my dealer will send me 2 complete sets of all filters at 400 hours and another set at 1000 hours at no charge, he said they will be at my door when I get the hours its just something that cat does. as far as camera not working in snowing, dusty or the sun hits in just right. I cant see in front of me in that condition

 

[pafarmer]

Same here on the filters....I have them sent to me free of charge at the same hours marks, plus they give me free oil analysis kits..,I take the sample and mail it i for free and they perform the analysis and provide a report with recommendations if needed....plus the GPS provides allot of valuable I formation by operator in my case. I can tell allot of things my operators are doing or not doing based on those reports. Allot more to CAT than just the best machines on the market...

 

[movindirt]

Our local dealer had a brand new D series machine stolen, the Cat product link(?) gps that comes standard on the machine lead the police right to where the thiefs had it hidden at, he said the gps can't be turned off and is well hidden on the machine, that alone is really nice imo. Again, if the sun is glaring so bad that I can't see out the back window chances are I'm not seeing much out the front either. You won't beat the MTL plowing snow, I've plowed with them all, hands down in the same weight class you won't beat the 297D or PT100 Terex plowing snow. If you are doing dirt work most of the time you would be fine with the MTL, if you were doing more abrasive work like tearing out concrete everyday I would look at the CTL, you'll wear out tracks just as fast on either, only issue you'll have on the MTL is the drive lugs ripping off. But on the same note I've seen a good amount of CTL tracks that have torn apart... What dealer has the best service? For me Cat can have any part next day, Bobcat you could be waiting a few days.

 

[KSSS]

I am not sure I get the rationalization that if I cant see out of the camera I cant see out the front either, it makes no sense really. Cameras are effective in good conditions, and they are less effective in unfavorable conditions. Movindirt your not suggesting that the wear rate on an MTL is the same as a CTL are you? An MTL is much more expensive to keep running than is a CTL in anything other than the easiest of ground conditions. An MTL in the snow is excellent, pure topsoil fine as well, any type of aggregate and the wear gets progressively more expensive. That is not even debatable. Telematics are available in skid steers other than CAT, CASE has it and I am sure others do as well. It is a cool feature, the biggest advantage I think is the dealer can identify codes that are thrown remotely, much like ONSTAR. Should a service truck need to be sent out, they already have a good idea where to start, no doubt it would save money on in field repairs. However soon this will be coming standard to all machines and the purpose is to monitor emissions (so I am told). I don't think it is standard on CAT since when I priced a 299D this Fall it was an option at that time, however soon it will be mandated it sounds like.

You guys are a little too CAT sensitive I think. No one is conspiring against you. We all run what we chose to and there are a lot of choices.

 

[pafarmer]

Sensitivity is for chicks...it's all about debunking the B.S. that people type on here at times for me , .allot of misinformation and misdirection by folks that don't presently own or have ever owned a machine they seem to know so much about...if you only demo'ed a machine that about all you can comment on, a 10 minute demo conversly long term users have much more insight to offer and less BS. Real facts from real users....

 

[warbird]

pcl did you try the bobcat yet? would like to hear your report, wish you had both at the same time to give honest report.

 

[PCL]

Yes got to try the Bobcat today. Here is what I think of it.

Overall I was extremely impressed with the Bobcat. From a visibility standpoint it is great. Out the front you can see both corners of the bucket without having to lean forward in the seat. From the sides I couldn't find many vision issues with the boom at all and was overall very good the Cat may be a touch better because of the boom being more compact. Getting in and out of the Bobcat is seamless if you need to get in and out of the machine often, the door swings open nice and wide I was really happy with that.. Out the back of the machine the vision is very good. There are only two negatives I could find vision wise with the Bobcat, first is vision to the forks, the hydraulic lines and actuator for bob-tach are in your sight line and don't give you a clear vision of the forks. The second is vision out the side of the machine to see the rear of the tracks for loading/unloading. Overall after about twenty minutes or so I felt I knew where I was with the machine was and was able to navigate tighter areas very easily.

I liked the information display and how all the switches are in front of you, everything seemed to be placed where you would want them to be. Overall the switches and information display felt of high quality to me, I wasn't very fond of the Cat's switches being at the top of the cab on the left side. I liked the placement of the radio being in front of you as well vs being behind you in the Cat. Overall the entire cab had great fit and finish, the only item I did wish the bobcat had was a cloth heated seat, that was a nice feature of the Cat. The cab was nice and quiet and sealed well not quite as quiet compared to the Cat but it is still very good. The SJC controls in the Bobcat are butter smooth and extremely accurate, I felt instantly at home with the controls on this machine and much more comfortable than with the Cat. The ride with the roller suspension is better than my current machine but not to the level of the Cat. The breakout force with the Bobcat was very good, never really had any issues moving any piles of snow that have sat for a few weeks, the pushing power was very good as well. These two area's I felt the Bobcat had a big advantage over the Cat.

After trying both I think that I am leaning towards the Bobcat. The machine that I tried was the iT4 machine with the Kubota engine which I think is the better way to go. Could care less to worry about DEF.

 

[KSSS]

Sensitivity is for chicks...it's all about debunking the B.S. that people type on here at times for me , .allot of misinformation and misdirection by folks that don't presently own or have ever owned a machine they seem to know so much about...if you only demo'ed a machine that about all you can comment on, a 10 minute demo conversly long term users have much more insight to offer and less BS. Real facts from real users....

Farmer you may want to find a Snickers bar.

 

[Shimmy1]

The SJC controls in the Bobcat are butter smooth and extremely accurate, I felt instantly at home with the controls on this machine and much more comfortable than with the Cat.

IMO the best controls out there right now. The Kubota with pilots is VERY good as well, but needs a better cab. After a full season with our 770, I have only a couple of complaints on the Bobcat. The fuel fill is $hi+, even running the nozzle on slow it usually will burp out some fuel. The auto-level for the bucket could be a little smoother. Last but not least, fuel tank should have been bigger. Cannot run a full 8 hours without fuel. Otherwise machine has been great. We put just over 400 hours on it so far.

 

[Shimmy1]

Farmer you may want to find a Snickers bar.

:falldownlaugh:beerchug:usa