bobcat battery drain while not in use and need extra volts to start

[Tinkerer]

we did have one success , as i was wiggling one ground lead coming to battery post ( 3 screw on top of ground lead at battery ) the machine did light up , actually did it 3 times in a row. we thought we had found the issue and he took a punch and reset the clamp. we never could duplicate the results again.

That is an indication the wire is broken or damaged inside the insulation.
That was one of the more difficult wiring problems I ever encountered.
I had another one (battery cable) that had corrosion in it. In excess of two feet in length.
It wasn't swollen like they usually are when that happens.
It just quit passing enough current allow the needed amps to pass through it.

 

[rackmaster]

That is an indication the wire is broken or damaged inside the insulation.
That was one of the more difficult wiring problems I ever encountered.
I had another one (battery cable) that had corrosion in it. In excess of two feet in length.
It wasn't swollen like they usually are when that happens.
It just quit passing enough current allow the needed amps to pass through it.

I would agree with that, but we tried multiple times to make it repeat, and could never duplicate it.
reset the crimp, cut it off and put a new one on it, still nothing. wiggle every wire close to it, nope.
cussed it, nope
actually, we were putting up our tools, after it repeated 3 times. it was a let down.

 

[Tinkerer]

That's a real bummer.
I cannot imagine how frustrating that dam thing must be.

 

[Simon C]

Have you tested for how much power is coming into the dash switch versus how much is going out after you push it. Could that switch have bad contacts. Just asking some simple test questions. Hope you solve it.
Simon C

 

[rackmaster]

Have you tested for how much power is coming into the dash switch versus how much is going out after you push it. Could that switch have bad contacts. Just asking some simple test questions. Hope you solve it.
Simon C

Im going to agree with you, I am thinking a bad contact in the controller, specifically the run button.
would make sense, that its weak , but occasionally would work ( since it has before by coincidence ). but never able to duplicate. I got my ecm back yesterday, Im going to try a couple of things and if not successful, Ill take the controllers out and send them for testing also.

 

[rackmaster]

Have you tested for how much power is coming into the dash switch versus how much is going out after you push it. Could that switch have bad contacts. Just asking some simple test questions. Hope you solve it.
Simon C

hey simon,
I got the ecm back in and we did some voltage loss tests today.
both neg and positive had the same results.
the meter would read 0, when drain was put on by hitting start, the meter would jump to 12 volts, then immediately fall down 20-10 then 0000, it would do all this in 2 seconds or so.
i hope we did that correctly.

Key pad test procedure;
My son did some reading and we went back down and activated the key pad by adding the charger for 15 sec or so, when we did this, he also activated the key pad test at same time.
he worked his way thru every button and they all showed active.

we also swapped out the relays again, just to make sure.

so we have 12.8 v about everywhere we check with machine sitting, with 6 am charger it jumps to 14.8, so just a couple of volts different. takes about 15 seconds and there is enough extra power to activate the key pad, run or enter button.
of course it starts every time.
if you turn it off, have to put the charger back on for 15 seconds.

every thought i have says the battery is not putting out enough amps or a loose connection or ground. we have not found any and battery has been checked twice with load.

my last thought is i am taking the fuse or relay panel out tomorrow and make sure there is not a loose or weak connection there.

 

[Simon C]

First make sure your battery is fully charged, then procede with these tests with no charger connected.

When you tested the positive cable did you hold the red lead on dead centre of positive post and the negative lead on the positive post of the Solenoid and hold the start button for lets say 5-10 seconds. What was the reading towards the end of the 10 sec. test. Did the starter solenoid go clunk when you turned on that switch at any time up to the 10 second mark.

Second test , Touch the Positive lead on the frame somewhere with clean steel and the negative lead on the dead center of the negative post of the battery, While holding the start switch for 5-10 seconds. What kind of number is on the meter at the end of 10 seconds.

Third test, Touch the positive lead on the starter itself on one of the securing bolts with no paint and the negative on the dead center of the negative post of battery, While holding the start switch for 10 seconds. What kind of number is on the meter.

Fourth test, Touch your Positive lead on the dead center of the Positive post of the Battery while touching the Negative lead on the positive post of Fuse Panel , while holding the start switch for 5-10 seconds. What kind of number is on the meter.

Fifth test , Touch your positive lead to the metal part of dash on clean steel and the negative lead on the dead center of the Negative post of battery, while holding the start switch on for 5-10 seconds. What kind of number is on your meter.

Sixth test, Touch your positive lead on the dead center of the positive post and your negative lead on the start switch or Start Button ( whatever is on your machine ) While trying to start for 5-10 seconds. What kind of number is on your meter at end of 10 seconds.

Seventh Test, Did you hold the positive lead on the dead center of the Positive post of battery , and negative lead on dead center of Negative post of battery while holding the start switch on for 5-10 seconds. What number is on the meter at the end of 10 seconds.

Every one of these test is to check a particular part of harness, or possible fusible link or bad fuse connection, or faulty relay harness or faulty solenoid.. Please do them one at a time to eliminate something stupid and simple. Hate to throw money at machines and still no run. When I say dead center of the battery I mean the lead or battery post , not the connector hooked up on it.

Take a picture of these questions on your phone then write down the answers on a paper for each one at a time. Post the answers in 0.15 volts or 0.9 volts or 1.9volts or similiar. Want to know what was on the meter.
Simon C

 

[Simon C]

I have solved many a no start with these and a few other tests, start with these and then we will move on to further checks. Hopefully we can find problem. You could do test seven before the other tests but need answer as #7.
Simon C

 

[rackmaster]

I have solved many a no start with these and a few other tests, start with these and then we will move on to further checks. Hopefully we can find problem. You could do test seven before the other tests but need answer as #7.
Simon C

Yes, we can do this tomorrow.
Keep in mind I cant hold starter down for 10 seconds, it will start right up in 1/2 a second..
Its the run or enter button that will not light up the panel, so that the starter button will work.
once it lights up, starting is no issue

the run /enter button will not light up, unless a charger is connected.
but, i did disconnect the charger , after the panel was was lit up.
it has no diff starting , even without the charger.

when we did the test earlier today,
on both positive and neg batters leads, and starter positive and neg.
1- we put charger on so panel would light up ( run/enter button)
2- disconnected charger.
3- pushed start button, it starts instantly
The meter would go to 12.?? very quick and then fall back .10 and then to 0 , all within a couple of seconds, and then stay at zero

Starting is not the issue, its getting the run button to light the panel up so that it will allow the start button to operate.
It will not light up the panel unless a charger with only 6 amps is hooked up for 15 seconds or so.
we did do a panel test, by holding the arrows down as we pressed enter, ( with charger attached of course) he pushed every button and the system says panel is good.

Battery is new, i have had it checked with load at 2 diff parts stores.

 

[rackmaster]

Problem solved;
It turned out to be the control panel run button contact. I sent them off for testing and the contact had some corrosion in it from moisture over the years.
Its makes sense that the contact was weak, and it just took couple extra volts to make it kick on to allow the start button to work.
thanks for all that helped .

 

[63 caveman]

Good to hear!

 

[Simon C]

Just for your information, a voltage drop test with the Red Test Lead on the Positive of the battery with the black test lead to the output side of the push button would of shown a reading of about 1- Max. 12 volts , with the button pushed . Any reading like that immediately tells you something is wrong with the switch. Just for your information for next time.
The boost charge was giving enough extra to enable a start. But eventually the switch would of failed totally and nothing would happen.
Glad you got it running again.
Simon C