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Bidding a Residential demo project, Reality check please?

Discussion in 'Demolition' started by tmc_31, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Hey guys,

    I have been asked to bid on a small residential demo project that consists of 2 single story wood frame houses about 1400 sqft each. Also there are 3 wood frame outbuildings on the property that will have to be taken down as well. All buildings are slab on grade. All material is to be hauled off site. The total square footage to be demoed is about 5200 sqft.

    It is my intention to rent a 25 ton excavator with a hyd thumb for this project. I will also use my skid steer with grapple forks for the project. I intend to use 40 cy containers (18 loads) to haul the debris to the landfill except for the concrete (about 224 tons) which I will hire tandems to do the hauling.

    I am figuring about a week to do the project.

    At this point I am coming up with about $6.56/sqft or a little over $34,000 to complete the demo.

    Is this a reasonable price?
     
  2. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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    Without knowing your dump fees and haul times it would be tough to start to approximate a figure.
     
  3. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Lumberjack,

    The dump fees work out to about $42/ton. This includes the landfill fee, can set and daily rental fee, and hauling. Round trip haul time to the landfill is approx 2 hours.

    I am estimating 524 cubic yards or 154 tons of construction debris and 224 tons of concrete.


    Tim
     
  4. 450smrider

    450smrider Active Member

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    42 bucks a ton omg im lucky if i can pay 90 a ton.....
     
  5. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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    So 378 tons at $42 is just under $16k to get rid of the material. That leaves $18k for 2 machines for 5 days... that's almost double the norm here.
     
  6. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Thanks lumberjack,

    I have got 2 laborers plus myself for 56 hrs (7 days) each priced into the job. I think I can complete the job in 5 days but I threw a couple extra days in for contingency s. So I may be able to shave some of that

    Tim
     
  7. JNB

    JNB Senior Member

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    Tim, I figured it at 6 days using your $42 per ton figure. My excavator figure is probably low, but I figured your SS high, so it's probably close. I'm no expert on the subject, but I think you're right in there. Just my two cents.

    Disposal+10% just-in-case 17,500
    Rented excavator 9,000
    Skid steer 5,400
    Laborx2 @ $400 per day 2,400

    Total $34,300
     
  8. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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  9. DIRTHAWK

    DIRTHAWK Active Member

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    Not sure what those outbuildings look like ,but I would say your estimate of 154 tons of debris would be high. Better high than low though. Good Luck
     
  10. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Thanks for your input John. I appreciate the breakdown.

    I got a quote from a local rental yard weekly (7days/40hrs) for a 25 ton excavator with a hyd thumb with pick up, delivery, taxes and damage waiver for $3,300. I checked with United rentals, their price for a 12 ton with thumb is $3,800 for a week all up. I am figuring $250/day for my skid. I will probably rent a root grapple for the week.


    Lumberjack, what does "..."this mean?

    All, are my debris and concrete tonnages and cubic yard estimates within reason?

    Tim
     
  11. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Thanks DIRTHAWK, you could be right, I figured the outbuildings using the same formula (thanks CM1995) that I used for the houses. No interior walls in the outbuildings, just 4 walls and a roof.

    Tim
     
  12. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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    I started typing, accidentally sent it before I was done, then didn't want it to go off half cocked.

    To me, it seems like your estimates on the high side, although that's a good thing within reason (you getting the job). You say you think 5 days, but are figuring for 7... that's 40% fudge. I did the math this morning, but it seems like 224 tons of concrete is also high. I don't remember the specifics, but I think I figured 5200 sq ft of concrete 4" thick, 700 linear feet of 1.5 cu ft footers and 3500lbs/ton of concrete came to... 180 tons I think it was. I doubt the footers will be that extensive on the out buildings.

    What will the two laborers be doing? I would be in the excavator for most of the time and would have one laborer cutting any rebar in the broken up foundations and cleaning up the buildings as they were loaded out using the CTL and hand raking, forwarding the tid bits to the next area bein loaded out.

    With the two hour cycle time for the roll offs/tandems, hopefully you'll be running several trucks to get the loads out in the prescribed time. Hopefully staging several 40 yard cans so you can hit the ground rolling. I don't know if I would bring a laborer on the first day loading out the buildings.... only if there was something he could be doing. I am pretty sure I'd start on the smaller buildings so he could start wrapping them up as I'm moving to the bigger areas getting the buildings loaded. Depending on the site layout, I might even have the laborer forward the smaller slabs to the bigger building so the ex doesn't have to walk as much between buildings and I can focus on getting cans filled. As I get to the bigger buildings, tandems could come in and I could start loading out the slabs with the cans while the tandems are gone.


    I would be doing the job with my 6 ton mini and large ctl (Kubota KX057 and SVL90-2). A 25 ton ex would be fun, but that rental would make a month's payment on both machines with money left over.
     
  13. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Lumberjack,

    I used 628 linear ft of beam for the slab. I also figured 2 cf/linear ft of beam. I based my tonnage for concrete on 111 cubic yards at 4050lb/cubic yard. Could be a little high.

    I think I am going to reduce my labor force to myself on the excavator and one operator/laborer on the skid. I don't need anybody standing around watching me work.

    This will be a major project for me. Up until now I have just demoed a few small barns, 2 garages, and a chicken coop all with just the skid. I am having to take an educated guess at the length of time required for the job. I would rather guess too long than too short.

    I will have 2-40 cyd cans set at the beginning of the job and hopefully I can get 4 loads/day. I will have two tandems hauling concrete at 8 loads per day. We will also be separating out any scrap steel for sale at the scrapper.
     
  14. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    Without going into detail, I think that the prices sound high, but that is based on market conditions and intense competition in my area. If you can get the job for that, it sounds good.

    I would advise caution putting bid numbers out on a public forum like this. While those that post often are likely going to help, there are many lurkers who are unknown. It is not that far of a reach to think that a competitor may be checking in and see your price posted for the world to see.

    Here are the current user stats from the homepage:
    There are currently 643 users online. 22 members and 621 guests

    As you can see, nearly 30 unknown guests for every registered member viewing the forum.

    Just something to think about when getting into pricing details.
     
  15. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Jerry,

    Thanks for the heads up. Sometimes I forget that there are others besides our little community watching. On the other hand rest assured that the numbers I am throwing about are pretty general in nature and do not reflect what my final bid will be. Being new to the demo business I appreciate the members of the forum sharing their experience. The reality check thing is invaluable to me.

    I wonder if a section of the forum that would be available only to registered members would be helpful in these kinds of situations. Still wouldn't stop the trolls but might slow them down a bit.

    I am surprised that you find these numbers high being from socal and all. You did say that the competition is fierce there right now. I tend to think that prices on the east and west coasts are usually significantly higher that around here in Texas. Shows what I know.

    I asked a buddy that is an estimator for a local construction firm what kind of allowance he used for residential demolition on his projects, he said $10/sqft. If I thought I could get the job for that I think I would do the job then go the the Bahamas for the winter.

    Again, thanks for the heads up

    Tim
     
  16. clintm

    clintm Senior Member

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    that's they get paid from the owner then beat some poor guy down to about 3.50/sqft and laugh all they way to the bank
     
  17. TrentNz

    TrentNz Well-Known Member

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    shouldnt need anything bigger then a 14t excavator, all i do is demolition atm and im cranking about 2 houses a week. One laborer is more then enough and you shouldnt really need them on the first day unless he is picking out scrap/wire. 250ton of demo waste (not concrete) seems quite high for 2 houses. Considering youd be lucky to get 11t in a roll off bin and they can clear between a quater to half house depending on the size. Trick is to smash the wood as small as possible. Damn 90$ a ton is cheap.. Its $150 a ton here in new zealand
     
  18. sadegs

    sadegs Active Member

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    I recently demo'ed a house (pics attached). House was about 1,400sqft

    Here were my ROUGH numbers:
    Excavator Rental: $3,400/wk
    Fuel: $700
    1 Laborer: ~$500/week
    Air Compressor/Jack Hammer (1 day) : $200
    Concrete/Aggregrate - 2 @ $340/each, 20 yarders, (no weight limit). the rest i used for backfill ($700)
    Trash - 100yard live load - $1,800
    (2) 40 yard dumpsters - It went way over weight on both - i think the cost was around $1,500 EACH .

    A few specifics on this job - there was more concrete than i could believe. It was like someones brother in-law worked as a concrete driver and they kept pouring and pouring. some pieces were soo big i couldn't break it or lift it with the machine. the laborer jack hammered holes around it before I could break it. This isn't the first time I've ran into this. Another time that it was an old army barracks turned restraunt, the concrete kept going down, getting 1' wider each time. I would have something in the contract that if there is more concrete than expected, it will cost more.

    I pay around $90-$110/ton for trash. Less if you get more into the load. Try to crush it up as best as possible. I liked loading the dumpsters more than the live load, for 2 reasons; the dumpers are there ready when you need them, with live load, you have to wait for the truck to show up. Second, you can pack the **** out of the dumpsters, the live load trailer the drive is highly sensitive if you bang the sides of the trailer.

    Also, try to keep your trash and aggregrate separate. aggregrate is recycled and is a lot cheaper to get rid of. Nine 40-yard dumpsters seem a little high for each house, you may be able to pack them into 5 - but remember , its all about tonage, not space.

    A big machine will tear through those houses in a morning. You'll spend more time on getting the site cleaned up, in the dumpsters, hauled, etc. The house i posted a pic, it took me about 2-3 days to demo, haul everything. The remaining 3-4 days i dug the hole. I was rushing at the end, and the foundation guy was a little pissed... but hey, whatever.




    2014-10-28 11.00.28.jpg
    2014-10-27 17.44.04.jpg
     
  19. sadegs

    sadegs Active Member

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    Hey TrentNz,
    curious how you're crushing up your wood?
    are you demoing houses on a slab, or with a basement? I found the best way to crush up the wood is drive over it, but if the house has a basement, it makes it hard to keep the debris in the hole and drive over it. Bucket/thumb crushing doesn't get it small enough, and moving the trash/wood to the flat ground starts mixing in the dirt with trash, which is less than desirable.

    then, add into the mix the houses with a field stone foundation and finished basement. trying to rip out the basement dislodges the fieldstone then you have a mess of rocks and wood....arghhh!
     
  20. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I prefer to start processing the wood as I take the structure down. If it's a slab I try and keep all the debris on the slab, munch it as I take it down and then sit on top of it with the exc. as I take the rest of the structure down.

    If it's a basement, do the same and keep the debris inside the basement. A concrete block basement does create it's own issues as they are weak and will collapse, a poured basement is the cat's meow.

    I like to take them down methodically, my background is in building so I know how to build them and that makes it easier to take the trickier ones down. As you're taking the structure down, being careful to contain the debris in the smallest footprint possible, sort the larger metal items for recycling as you're going through the take down phase. Use the debris as needed to build a ramp to reach higher parts of the structure. Once the structure is down and you've done the first pass of volume reduction, go through the debris once more sizing it and removing the remaining metal. I like to do this stage as I'm loading out.

    Couple of simple rules for demo of a wood framed single family home -

    A 30 yard can is going to average 9 tons. Some cans will be 6 tons at the beginning and the last ones will be 12 tons but they'll average 9 tons when it's all over.

    1000SF = 100 CY of debris. This doesn't include concrete or foundations, that has to be calculated separately and is a big wild card.

    There is on average 3-5 tons of metal in a single family home. Water heaters, structural steel, cast iron piping, metal roofing, appliances, HVAC units, light fixtures, etc. Once again this is a big wild card as well due to the age of the home and how it was constructed. I usually get a 30 yard full of metal out of a 2K SF demo.

    There can also be a fair amount of non-ferrous scrap (copper) in a home as well. I have collected as much as $600 worth of copper water pipes in larger demos. I don't fool with wire, just throw what is easily sorted into the metal bin.