BCIII Cummins Rebuild.

[Truck Shop]

Truck I regularly drive has a DD13, fuel system bleeds down overnight, worse over long periods, have to take a hand pump at test port and prime system at times to get it to start. Shop near here replaced Injectors on one of last DDs that had done this, $13750 once bill was done.
None are really cheap.

DD injectors run a little over 6K for a full set----so there must have been a issue with the
high pressure fuel pump also.

 

[Truck Shop]

Cheap only goes so far on the old stuff until runs out.

Just have to know where to look. Attention was dropped for along time about keeping older
cores and scrapping the rest, about 8 years ago I made the statement on here that eaton
gear boxes would get tight on useable cores, with AMT's taking over. I remember Junkyard
replying {then I should grab everyone I can get my hands on}.

 

[Truck Shop]

Left yesterday morning to go to Spokane to drop off one block for crank housing bore/line hone,
and pickup the finished block. Line honed, decked, counter bores machined. This one had fine
cracks in the counter bores so had repair sleaves installed in all six plus 3 head bolt inserts installed,
had tiny cracks to counter bore, then machined for lower press fit liners. Perfect machine work as
usual.
*
And as was suspected both blocks had the dreaded Cummins bow in the crank housings. The block
I dropped off yesterday is already done. Dion the machinist that does a majority of the block work
told me it's really rare to see a small bolt block that isn't ever so slightly bowed, and Cummins had
a passing grade even on blocks that were new. He said even Cat and the rest had their issues, he
had a E model in the line hone tank at the time, not only fretted but crooked as well. But line boring
is a thing of the past. Simply because way more work and most equipment wasn't able to cut all
7 at once, so it could still be off with the old tooling, line hone does all 7 at the same time making
for a truly straight crank way.
*
Gave it a clean solvent wash/blow-out and set it in the engine stand when I got back yesterday.
Went to work a 4 am, installed cam bearings, galley plugs, installed and torqued the crank,
installed the liners right @ .006, installed the camshaft. Got too hot by 9 so dump the pistons/rods
and install heads tomorrow morning. Time it on Saturday.

 

[DMiller]

Oh Great And Excellent Talented TS, I have a small question of DD13.

Old beast I drive is a 2012, has started Black Stacking beyond the fuel rail bleed away overnight. Started that today, as shift and step back into it, engine will 'Hesitate' or Stumble ever so slightly, then thick Hard Black stack but keep right on pulling, No slogging, no misfires and cleans up as passes 1700rpm. No Check Engine lamps.

Suspicions are a Failing Injector(s) or the cause of the Fuel Rail bleed off.

 

[Truck Shop]

Remove the large canister {4.5"} black plastic cover that contains main fuel filter
& check for very fine metal particles in it's base housing. If the high pressure pump
starts making metal it will destroy the injectors and in some cases never issue a
waring light or code. We've had two do that on DD15's, one I found doing a routine
service. Driver never had a complaint or noticed a power issue. I think I found that
just as the pump was starting to give out, it never blew any smoke though. There
is also a issue with crank case breather {called a spinner/separator} that can have
issues, normally those start a external leak also {on the right side just above pan
rail}. I'm guessing the 13 uses the same setup.
*
Oh Great And Excellent Talented TS? Excuse me while I put on my rubber boots.

 

[DMiller]

Thanks!!

 

[Truck Shop]

And to explain Cummins and or others process for checking straightness of crank housing bores.
With main caps installed/torqued, two collars were installed in the front & rear main cap bores.
A tube the exact diameter of housing bores minus .005 was slid through first plus a rod connecting
the two collars tightened to a specific amount keeping tension on collars and supporting the tube.
Sounds strange--it was. Tolerance was deemed ok if outer tube would slid/turn without too much
resistance, if not it a line bore was required. That included measuring the ID of housing bores.
But these days any fretting and a line bore is figured necessary on any engine. And that's fretting
where the main caps meet the block surface.

 

[bccat]

And to explain Cummins and or others process for checking straightness of crank housing bores.
With main caps installed/torqued, two collars were installed in the front & rear main cap bores.
A tube the exact diameter of housing bores minus .005 was slid through first plus a rod connecting
the two collars tightened to a specific amount keeping tension on collars and supporting the tube.
Sounds strange--it was. Tolerance was deemed ok if outer tube would slid/turn without too much
resistance, if not it a line bore was required. That included measuring the ID of housing bores.
But these days any fretting and a line bore is figured necessary on any engine. And that's fretting
where the main caps meet the block surface.

We did the same thing on the big Alco V12’s, On the V16’s, we used a scope and mandrel’s with crosshairs fitted in the main bores, pain in the ass to set up, but never had a main failure or rod failure in the 30 years I worked on them. The Cat 3516’s we had were a different story

 

[chidog]

We did the same thing on the big Alco V12’s, On the V16’s, we used a scope and mandrel’s with crosshairs fitted in the main bores, pain in the ass to set up, but never had a main failure or rod failure in the 30 years I worked on them. The Cat 3516’s we had were a different story

Was that an Autocollimator?

​

 

[terex herder]

Would a line bore use new caps, or cut the old caps? How much is a line bore allowed to sink the crank into the block?

 

[Truck Shop]

Timed it today also---a nice .072 of pushrod travel on all three. I have a stack of cam follower
gaskets/shims made by three different manufactures, the stack is about 2.5 inches thick.
Not all manufactures made the same thickness of gaskets, for example PDI thinnest is .007,
and it can vary to .008 up to .009 same with the other various thicknesses. So by having
a pile of gaskets I can come up with the perfect combination to land dead on the number
I'm shooting for.

 

[Truck Shop]

Would a line bore use new caps, or cut the old caps? How much is a line bore allowed to sink the crank into the block?

Depends--some blocks-new caps, but not with a 855, or many other engines. Normally the
cap and block are both milled. And there is a installed rod/piston assembly height, and that
has to be considered along with amount removed from deck. I have installed height
dimensions just need to find it. New deck height max is 19.007, new minimum is 19.003,
max a deck can be machined to 18.994. That is figured from centerline of crankshaft. Plus
it also messes with crank/cam gear lash, which the minimum is .004 with a max of .012.

 

[Truck Shop]

How much is a line bore allowed to sink the crank into the block?

Height Installed Alignment. Wear limit 16.619, New minimum 16.628, New maximum 16.632.
Max out of round main & rod .002.

 

[Truck Shop]

These parameters for wear & machining I listed above----very, very few mechanics ever
investigate or bother with the particulars. Snot their problem, it's the machinist problem,
they are just the installer. It's a mechanic job/responsibility to check what he is sending
out & getting back for machine work. I spent six years at automotive machine------------
it's a whole other world. All the lap top skills and rats nests of electrical trouble shooting
equipment isn't worth a sh!t if the rotating mass isn't up to snuff.

 

[terex herder]

Not many mechanics with either the skills or equipment to measure a 16-19" deck height. Im sure you can do it properly, but not many with your background.

 

[chidog]

This is what makes TS products very good. I've done this too, it can be time consuming stuff, its not a rush rush deal. And very cool to have that 6 years machinist back ground.

 

[Truck Shop]

but not many with your background.

And very cool to have that 6 years machinist back ground.

It made a huge difference in my ability to rebuild engines that last. Then & now----Then you
could walk into most any mom & pop parts store and buy damn near everything to overhaul
a small block chevy----people buy crate engines now, they don't want their hands getting dirty,
don't want to think about what they bought. Just instant gratification {It runs-now the money
please}. Zero threats to them, not responsible, snot there problem. But They Are just The Wizard
of Id with a OBDII code reader, again no responsibility the code reader told me so.
*
How many rebuild transmissions these days? getting fewer all the time. it's all about the
fast money.

 

[DMiller]

ZF trans in my F250 has subtleties that most cannot accept. Small distortions of case lugs for clutch packs and case is junk, shafts been updated nine times in first ten years then that trans discontinued for next generation iteration. Rebuilders here are sparse, Ford authorized is only one still remanning these. The 7.3 in the pickup is fast obsoleting, both Ford and IH want them To just Go Away, eerily reminiscent of the MV404 446 IH once built that lived seemingly forever.

The C15 in the KW is an oddity for trucks these days as are orphans to the industry even as Cat still uses the series in Heavy Machines. Small nuances on that block are a surprisingly long list. Expensive to overhaul properly the owners that have them are looking to trade them out. Almost as Orphaned as Allis engines in the 70s/80s.

 

[Truck Shop]

ZF trans

The ZF is a tunnel type gear box--the gears are heat shrink installed. Plus it's a jigged mess to
set up. And I'm not too sure on Ford still offering remans for the ZF. Towing was not advised
in 5 gear. The Ag company I worked for had 16 Super Duty's with the 7.3 and 5 sp. I put a
trans/clutch in everyone of those most were early 90's.

 

[cfherrman]

Since the introduction of the 5r110 and the vgt turbo, the no longer developed manuals are a bad idea to buy unless you are towing down the interstate in a 2wd hot shot rig