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backhoe VS mini excavator production questions

413wedge

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Ventura CO. CA USA
Im an owner operator of a cat 420d for about 10 years now. Back in April I bought a Kubota u25 and I have seen the light. I am now seriously considering selling my backhoe to get a 6 ton mini and a CTL. I work almost exclusively for a foundation contractor and the scope of the work we do has changed so drastically in the last few years I have almost no space to run the backhoe. I am wondering if anyone could put some kind of percentage number on the two machines vs. my backhoe. im thinking ill be 30% more efficient on most jobs and almost 50% on other tighter ones. I know that you guys have made the switch from backhoe to excavator and would like to hear some experiences that you guys have had? pros/cons ? am I way off in my thinking?
 

Deeretracks

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
568
Location
Western Washington
Occupation
Shop Foreman
I know our company had 5 backhoes and 3 mini's 7yrs ago. Now we are down to 2 backhoes and have 6 mini's. Our backhoe buckets haven't left the yard in over 2yrs, they just leave the hoepack on all the time. That tells me that the operators greatly prefer digging with a mini even though most of ours are much smaller than the 580m-2's that we have.
 

Plebeian

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
432
Location
NZ
This video illustrates the backhoe vs mini excavator issue. The mini using less fuel than the back hoe. The main thing is to get the best mini excavator possible.
http://youtu.be/2Uu9-lReXSM
How much of the site preparation do you do? The Compact track loader can run a laser controlled leveller etc.
 

413wedge

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Ventura CO. CA USA
This video illustrates the backhoe vs mini excavator issue. The mini using less fuel than the back hoe. The main thing is to get the best mini excavator possible.
http://youtu.be/2Uu9-lReXSM
How much of the site preparation do you do? The Compact track loader can run a laser controlled leveller etc.

thanks Plebeian I have seen that video before the backhoe seems a little slow but I get that message. I don't do a lot of site prep but with those two machine's I want to start to broaden the scope of work that I do.
 

LT-x7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Central COMMI-fornia
Occupation
Earth Moving Contractor
Mini's are nice for some jobs and tasks but I wouldn't consider giving up my backhoe completely for a mini.

For example....... How big of mini ex does everyone think it would take to dig out this stump? Then what size ex to load it into the dump truck?
Pictures don't do this stump justice, I had my doubts it the backhoe was going to get the job done.
 

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413wedge

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Ventura CO. CA USA
LT I don't do much land clearing at all. the machines im looking into getting the Kubota u55 and Kubota svl 90 between those two machines im sure I could find a way to load some stumps and if not id bid in a rental that could handle it. most of the work I see now is tight quarters or a house that is PL to PL , or basement dig. being able to deposit spoils 360 degrees from the work zone is really what I need .
 

lantraxco

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,704
Location
Elsewhen
I always have to chuckle at the irony. Back in the early 80's I worked for a funny guy with vision that brought in what I believe to be the first mini excavators on the West coast if not the US. We were laughed at even with a five ton machine, let alone the smaller ones. We sold a few and the guys that had the openness of mind to see the advantages loved them. Now you can't go around a block anywhere without seeing at least one, some of them small enough to put in your hip pocket. Obviously there's still a place for the TLB but for most contractors the combination of a mini with a CTL is the cat's patootie.

Nissan Mini-Giant, RIP
 

LT-x7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Central COMMI-fornia
Occupation
Earth Moving Contractor
LT I don't do much land clearing at all. the machines im looking into getting the Kubota u55 and Kubota svl 90 between those two machines im sure I could find a way to load some stumps and if not id bid in a rental that could handle it. most of the work I see now is tight quarters or a house that is PL to PL , or basement dig. being able to deposit spoils 360 degrees from the work zone is really what I need .

I don't do a ton of land clearing either I just don't like the idea of limiting myself on the type of work I can do. In my neck of the woods you have to be versitle if you want to stay remotely busy.
Funny you should mention the rental..... When I cleared this lot 2 weeks before I rented a Kobelco 170, then after I was done and the ex sent back the property owner decided to move the house about 10'. Which meant this tree had to go. Since this is in a remote location 3 hours from a rental store I opted to give it a shot with the backhoe. It would have cost me about $1500 to get the ex back out to the site for one day.

If you plan to dig foundations 90% of the time and don't want to tackle other stuff, I agree without question the mini ex and skid is the way to go.
For my particular situation the problem is it really takes 2 operators to make this combo productive. I don't have 2 operators, I have...... me, & I use the term "operator" loosely. My Dad (in the picture above) is more than willing to help but isn't happy in a machine. So how much more productive would it be if you had to seat hop? Would it still be 30% more productive over the backhoe with only one machine working at a time?
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
This video illustrates the backhoe vs mini excavator issue. The mini using less fuel than the back hoe. The main thing is to get the best mini excavator possible.
http://youtu.be/2Uu9-lReXSM
How much of the site preparation do you do? The Compact track loader can run a laser controlled leveller etc.

That video is grossly misleading. If the backhoe had bigger buckets on it: a 36" digging bucket and a deeper trenching bucket, the outcome would not have been the same. That said, mini excavators suit my needs better than a backhoe.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
I have owned both for many years. Now we have only mini excavators and CTL's , with a new 316 and a few dozers but not a single backhoe in my fleet now. Your production with the right mini will increase substantially. It's difficult to place a number on it with out knowing details of your work but if its strictly foundation work your production should be close to double that of a backhoe , all things being equal , that would be a fair figure. Less trouble to transport as well. Much better for tight places where a backhoe could never fit, more economical to operate etc etc....lots of plus with the Mini Ex.
I consider backhoes old school now...
 

413wedge

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Ventura CO. CA USA
I have owned both for many years. Now we have only mini excavators and CTL's , with a new 316 and a few dozers but not a single backhoe in my fleet now. Your production with the right mini will increase substantially. It's difficult to place a number on it with out knowing details of your work but if its strictly foundation work your production should be close to double that of a backhoe , all things being equal , that would be a fair figure. Less trouble to transport as well. Much better for tight places where a backhoe could never fit, more economical to operate etc etc....lots of plus with the Mini Ex.
I consider backhoes old school now...

thanks pa this was the kind of info I was looking for. within the first 3 hours of running my mini I knew my backhoe was antiquated . id like to get something in the 6-7 ton class and I need a ctl that's big enough to load dump trucks and end dumps. my figuring was 30% on most jobs but up to 50% on the really tight stuff. I plan on buying both machines new. its very rare that I can road the machine to the next job so that isn't part of my equation.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,318
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
I have always used a mini ex and skid steer. There are times when it is inconvenient, but never enough for me to justify a backhoe. I have built a good business around the big mini/ big CTL concept. I wouldn't have it any other way. I also have a large wheeled skid steer for the times when a CTL is not appropriate.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
thanks pa this was the kind of info I was looking for. within the first 3 hours of running my mini I knew my backhoe was antiquated . id like to get something in the 6-7 ton class and I need a ctl that's big enough to load dump trucks and end dumps. my figuring was 30% on most jobs but up to 50% on the really tight stuff. I plan on buying both machines new. its very rare that I can road the machine to the next job so that isn't part of my equation.

Happy to help Wedge....

The 303.5, 304.5 and 305.5 CAT are all great Mini's Excavators. the 299XHP is an absolute animal of a CTL, big and powerful, The biggest and badest CTL on the market today...The XHP stands for "extra high price", I know this first hand , I own a bunch of them, Steel track units with full forestry packages...

...around my farm and close to home I have working with my 303.5 and a 289D , both are 2014 models purchased brand new this year for personal use. I dont let my guys touch either one of these machines ever. I have nothing but good things to say about both the 303.5 and 289D , both are extremely capable for most tasks around the farm and the occasional money making venture close to home. Very Economical too operate and fit Into allot of tight spaces. I put the CAT 4 in 1 bucket on my 289D and love it. On the 303.5 I have the 1 foot, and 2 foot extreme duty rock buckets along with a swivel bucket for ditching etc...you can spin it 360 degrees, tilt it side to side , again super super handy and a relatively expensive option but worth it in my opinion. Also the machine has a hydro thumb....Good luck in your search and if I can help just shout at me.
 

clintm

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
974
Location
charlotte nc
Occupation
trucking,concrete recycling,grading, demolition
It looks like it doesn't have very good breakout force or pushing ability he's not filling the bucket full and is in loose gravel and with the stick cydl.on the bottom it would not have much break out in the backhoe configuration either :IMO it's a pretty slick idea though
 

JDOFMEMI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
3,074
Location
SoCal
I am also a fan of the skid or CTL with a good sized mini ex.

I have a friend with a U55 Kubota, and it is a great machine.
 
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