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backhoe bucket lifting eye position

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by hetkind, May 10, 2016.

  1. hetkind

    hetkind Senior Member

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    Good Morning to All,

    I am putting a new to me bucket, a 17" digmor on my JD 9300 backhoe that is mounted on a JD 450B Crawler Loader with a four in 1 bucket.

    I would like to install a lifting eye on the bucket. I have seen various forms of this, usually mounted six or so inches below the curl pin. Some are weleded padeyes of what looks to be 1/2 plate, the local backhoe folks around here seem to like a chain grab hook (fixed, not sliding) for about 3/8 chain, and I saw the other day, on a mini being towed, a "D" type ring on a weld/bolt mount, often used to hook trailer safety chains to on heavy duty rear bumpers.

    I like the concept of the "D" ring with the rotation allowed, and that I can use various types of chain or other lifting devices, like log tongs easily with good security of the device.

    What I am looking for is some experience on what type of eye to mount and what is the "ideal" placement.

    The 17" bucket is in addition to the 30" bucket the machine came wth. 30" is too wide for logging road ditching, drain placement and underground utility install for my needs.

    Howard
     
  2. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    A welded hook is quick, dirty and effective for getting the job done. 5/16 or 3/8, depending on what you have for chains. A D-ring is nice but the dirt is going to beat it up something fierce. For lifting now and then, I'll put a 6T shackle though one of the unused holes through the 1 inch plate on the bucket, just below the curl pin.
     
  3. El Hombre

    El Hombre Senior Member

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    Stick it on the bucket so the chain can be tensioned by curling the bucket; lots more sensitive control with the curl compared to just lifting the whole boom.
     
  4. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    A 3/8" hook welded on is best IMHO. It will grab 5/16 or 1/4" chain just fine. 1/4" gr 70 chain is very handy to use, until you break it, but I haven't yet.
     
  5. hetkind

    hetkind Senior Member

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    So, put the hook low on the bucket so curl is readily used, hook is more dirt resistant than D ring and in a pinch, I should use the unused lower holes.

    Which brings me...how about welding a padeye to a piece of pipe the width of the unused lower holes, and putting a removeable pin through that. Weight is distributed, lifting hook is easily removed for digging and cost is low. And no modification to the bucket is needed.

    Howard
     
  6. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Welding and pipe... Sounds like more trouble and failure risk. Fast_st has the best idea yet ... A shackle & chain through the unused bucket hole. A shackle sized for a bucket pivot hole will be rated more than the hoe will crane.
     
  7. hetkind

    hetkind Senior Member

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    Well...I like the idea of a "centered" load. I would rather have the lifting fixture fail then bend the bucket...the fixture is cheap and easily repaired, getting a bent bucket straight, not so easy! I have spent much of the last two weeks looking at hundreds of pieces of custom made below the hook lifting equipment for specialized production of aerospace vehicles. Not outside heavy equipment, but internal to some vey large scale manufacturing facilities.

    On the other hand, backhoes are normally way overbuilt for the load capacity to accomidate side loads like rocks...

    Let me think about this.

    Howard

    Howard
     
  8. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    I haven't bent my bucket or twisted the boom. The last time I used it, it was a shackle through the dozer cable eye attached to the bucket. JD 350 Dozer blew a final at the bottom of a pretty steep hill, 1000' from the barn, probably a 150 foot vertical climb. With help, freewheel the winch while driving the backhoe up the hill 70 feet or so, plant the bucket like a spade and let the dozer winch itself up, repeat until we're at the barn. Worked great as it was too slippery and too steep for the backhoe to help any other way.
     
  9. maddog

    maddog Senior Member

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    I bought 2 3/8chain hooks and put one on each side (welded). I use my bucket for logging so the double hook is best for moving logs and keeping them stable. The hooks are on the back side of the buckets low enough for easy hooking, high enough to be out of the way for digging. Having the hooks on the bucket also gives that extra little action sometimes needed by bucket curl
     
  10. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Another way to look at the problem is the lift capacity of the hoe. Is the max lift likely to bend the bucket or flange ? Consider the bucket is designed to dig a hole, sometimes being side loaded as it digs. This is worse than a load at the bucket mount. (closer to center)
     
  11. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    Pins are meant to run in shear, not in load bearing, so a pipe that spans the flanges would want to be maybe 3/4 to 1 inch wall thickness. normal sched 40/80 pipe might allow the pin to bend.
     
  12. GregsHD

    GregsHD Senior Member

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    I have this spring loaded lifting hook on my 24" bucket, It's great. I think the bucket came off a Mitsubishi mini ex.

    hook.jpg
     
  13. hetkind

    hetkind Senior Member

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    Actually, in this case, double shear!!! The longer the pipe, between the flanges, the more the shear load and lower the bending load. At a maximum working limit of under 10k lbs, between the stiffness of the pin AND the stiffness of the gussetted pipe, I expect little plastic deflection.

    Howard
     
  14. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    ? ? ? Longer pipe between flanges is lower bending load ? ?

    "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means" :D
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  15. hetkind

    hetkind Senior Member

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    Perhaps I was unclear...

    We have two fixed eye holes 10" apart, for instance the extra unsued holes in the bucket flange and we put a pin between them and hang a strap in the middle so that the total load is concentrated at a point halfway between the eyes at 5" each side. The we hang a 10,000lb load at the middle point. The SHEAR at each eye will be 5,000 lbs. If we move the strap around so it is 2.5" inches from one side, the shear will be 2500lbs and 7,500lbs. But the shear will always equal the total load.

    Now lets looks at the bending moment on the pin, with clockwise positive. With the load centered, the load on each pin will be 5,000 x 5" or 25,000 in-lbs or 2,083.4 ft-lbs, positive on the left, negative on right. That will be your maximum bending moment. That may be enough to bend the bucket flange, but the shear load is still 5,000 per side. And that is assuming your 1.5" diameter Pin is very soft with maximum deflection.

    Next case, we take a rigid pipe, lightly larger in diameter than the pin and weld a gusset lenghtwise as a stiffener with a central pad-eye for our load. The pipe is just 1/8 shorter on both sides that the eyeholes, and we can assume that beween the stiffness of the pipe and the rod, there is minimal deflection or bending. If we recalculate our bending moments at the same 5,000lb load but with 1/8 moment arm, we have 5,000 x 1/8" or 52.1 ft-lbs moment.

    I can easily calculate the wall thickness and gusset thickness necessary for minimal deflection, but I think schedule 40 pipe with 1/4" plate gusset will be sufficient to minimize bending moment at the eye holes.

    Is that clear?

    Howard
     
  16. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    Actually, if the hook is inline with the bucket piston, I'd expect something closer to 21000 pounds of force. I think its a 3.5 inch bore and 2200 relief pressure. and well a little less for the piston rod area call it 18,000 ish? I like overkill unfortunately, I'd probably go with a piece of .500 wall 4130 tubing. and add a grease fitting. Can't forget the grease fitting.
     
  17. hetkind

    hetkind Senior Member

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    Makes sense, but can't easily get heavy wall 4130 tubing, but I can get 2" pipe and 1/4 plate!
     
  18. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    a foot of 1144 1/12 solid bar and a foot of 2"od 4130 onlinemetals is pretty handy! :) though your design is worth a proof test.
     
  19. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I've had good results with high grade weld on hooks 3/8" as high on the back of the bucket as feasible. It only comes loose when I really want it to. I curl the bucket in all the way, drop it to the ground, and crowd suddenly. It then comes off. Otherwise it never has. No chain is ever the right length, 5/16 grade 80 chain most of the time is fine. Also get a snafful as my father called it. Others call it a keyhole. This enables you to fine tune chain length, or loop other chains through.

    I often use bedding sand. I fill half 275 gallon oil tanks like clam shells with sand. I've welded a dozen with short chains at each corner. As I dig the ditch, before moving the tractor, I can use a short chain, a keyhole, and two short 5/16" chains to lift four corners of an "ash pan". I swing over the ditch, and unhook two chains spreading it over ten feet of ditch. I'm then able to add ten feet to as many conduits as there are. I then refill ten feet of ditch using warning tape. The less the tractor moves, the less hand work restoring a lawn, or neighbor's meadow.

    These same "ash pans" are a great place to put the spoils when you dig. A 4' wide ditch is easy to restore. A 15 foot wide torn up lawn is less so. Keeping the mess off the surrounding lawn is easier than removing it.

    Willie
     
  20. shaggy650

    shaggy650 Active Member

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    Get an eye hoist hook like this that fit over the pin in the unused bucket holes, then make a pair of spacers out of pipe that fits over the pin to keep the hook in center, no welding required. Alloy-Eye-Hoist-Hook.jpg