Alternative Fuels

[Scrub Puller]

Yair...given the price of oil has risen by about 400% in the past ten years (and is probably likely to go up by more in the next ten) has any one given any thought to mains electric/battery/CNG powered equipment that may give them a competitive edge...or stay in business?

 

[Tiny]

I believe its a short sighted person that does not keep an eye on Alternatives That being said they are a long time off . With this depressed market doing anything that increases cost is not tolerable for now.

Straight battery is costly still and the range is not what I would like to see.

From Wiki;

The batteries, at least today, are expensive, causing high vehicle costs.

The usual battery charge takes around 5 hours, intended for overnight, fast chargers may reduce this to 45 or 30 minutes.

Infrastructure is lacking; charge stations are not yet popular. A fossil fuel vehicle can go anywhere in most countries and find a pay to refuel station with ease, recharge stations for electric vehicles are rare, despite near universal electricity availability throughout most developed countries.

The range of a Battery Electric Vehicle will slowly decrease over time as the rechargeable batteries lose capacity. They will eventually need to be replaced. The Tesla Roadster's batteries cost around $30,000 to replace currently.

CNG Compressed Natural Gas is another alternative but suffers from the full battery powered cars downfall of few refueling stations. There isn't any natural gas within 5 miles of home so refueling at my home is not an option

A solution to what we will use in the future for fuel I believe is coming but not in my lifetime .

 

[stock]

Biodiesel is Down, But Not Out



Many OEMs are testing higher blends of biodiesel, such as in this field trial involving a University of California San Diego Greenline shuttle bus powered by a Caterpillar diesel engine.

Several OEMs, including John Deere, approve up to B20 in current products.


By Curt Bennink
Senior Field Editor

Diesel prices will eventually rise as the economy fully recovers. Couple that with the ever-growing movement to transition away from petroleum-based fuels -- stemming from the desire to achieve energy independence and as a result of the oil spills in the U.S. and China -- and the spotlight is clearly placed on alternative fuels. Currently, biodiesel leads the way in the construction industry.

Yet, the industry faces a major challenge due to recent expiration of the biodiesel tax credit. "The catastrophe in the Gulf is crushingly sad and infuriating to continue to watch month after month," fumes Joe Jobe, CEO, National Biodiesel Board. "But what is almost as frustrating is to hear members of Congress talk about the need for more clean energy sources like wind, solar and advanced biofuels. Meanwhile, their inaction is suffocating the only biofuel that has achieved commercial success in America -- biodiesel."

Blend levels

Biodiesel is used in blends anywhere from B5 (5%) to B100 (100%). OEMs typically determine the most appropriate level of blending to ensure trouble-free performance of their equipment.

"Our engines are approved for B20 now without any additives," says Joe Mastanduno, product marketing manager, engine/drivetrain, John Deere Construction and Forestry Division. "You can use B20 in our present engines, Tier III engines and all of the old engines with no problem. Above B20, you have to start with additives and some preventive actions."

According to Hind Abi-Akar, technical expert, fluids engineering, Caterpillar, "B20 blends are acceptable in the majority of Caterpillar engines. Up to B5 is acceptable in some Tier II and older small engines."

Read this article and thought it would fit in here, until there is a definite purposeful political push in this field it ,biofuel, will always be a poor relation to the hydrocarbon couple that with the huge lobbying group by the oil companies and there will be no great advancement made.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yeah...tiny. I reckon the same about the electric vehicles...their time will come though. I was thinking more about the gear. Was talking to a bloke the other just back from a world tour and in Germany he saw a little excavator pulling up a sidewalk and trenching in a pipe.

It was battery powered and they had its onboard charger plugged into an extension cord as they were working. The operator spoke English and on a break showed the bloke the quick change battery bank and told him they had coverted a couple of small Toyota skids to battery power...as well as a couple of those little "muck trucks"...little front tipping jiggers that work around sites. Apparently the little rigs worked okay and the company promoted a "clean and green" image to pretty good effect.

On a larger scale diesel electric haul trucks have been trialed to take power from an overhead catenery at a SA mine. They can detach from the wire, start the diesel, proceed to the shovel and latch on again and shut down the diesel for the haul out of the pit.

If you think it through Caterpillar may be thinking to the future with the development of electric power trains for their dozers. It's all been done before. The Russians had D6 size crawlers ploughing with several hundred meters of "extension lead" on a retractable cable drum mounted on a frame above the bonnet...so too the Kiwis with wheel tractors when cheap hydro power came on line.

Of course these ideas didn't last, diesel was so cheap and convenient. When it gets to the stage where fuel gets too spendy and maybe rationed if I was still in business I would like to know my options.

 

[td25c]

Found an interesting wiki artical Scrub listing some alternative fuels. www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_fuel In my opinion bio fuels & wind power aint gonna cut the mustard.Atomic power is the future that I may see if I live long enough.Amazing the heat produced when the atom splits.I picture a bulldozer with big water tank on it where the engine used to be ,Kinda like a steam locamotive.And a small nuclear reactor making the heat to build the steam .I can dream but untill then we will keep mining coal & drilling for oil.To answer your question about what to do to give yourself an edge in a bad economy and If fuel prices spiked out,I'd get a good team of muels to pull a wagon ,slip scoop,etc to move dirt.Get plenty of hand shovels as well.If the economy took a big dive and fuel raitioning is needed ,there will be plenty of people ready to grab a hand shovel to put food on the table.

 

[Cat Wrench]

A lot of the presuppositions that form opinions on this subject are based on biased research. For years the enviro-nazis have pushed their agenda thru propaganda
that has been forced fed down our throats.

I have read many about scientists that have stated if they did not follow certain guidelines in their research they would not receive grants to continue. In other words their research must be to prove that using natural resources is bad and can't be sustained. We have literally only scratched the surface of this big blue orb. It is just as possible that we have only used 0.00001 percentage of "natural" fuels.

In my opinion (purely subjective) we should be using nuclear energy for our electricity and saving our other resources for mobile power.

I have posted this article in another thread but it seems appropriate here;

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/sustainable_oil_production.html

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair...I agree fellers about the atom option. I can remember talking about this forty years ago and an old mate of mine reckoned if we didn't adopt the nuclear tecknology we'd "shiver in the dark"...as he put it.

Well it hasn't happened here in Oz and they'll be a lot of folks who'll have to shiver before it ever will. In the meantime we have to play the cards we're dealt.

I follow world oil production and demand as a hobby and the analysis seems to be that we're burning three or four barrels for every one we find. That oil light (right there beside the global warming switch) is not blinking because we're "running out" of oil there's plenty still down there and more to be found...as I said on another thread the problem is unless your ride is a FA18 or an Abrahams you will maybe never get to burn it.

AFFORDABLE fuel is the coming problem.

Gee Cat Wrench I wish I could be so optimistic. I am aware of the theorys on your linked website and it would be good if they could be proved up.

In the meantime a significant portion of U.S. oil production comes from wells that are producing less than ten barrels per day...and the MSM trumpet about a "giant" new Norwegian oil find that, when you work it out will run the world for about a fortnight.

This is a huge and complex problem and there is no easy fix. I must say you blokes in the 'States are going to find it hard to adapt to a new set of values.

One of the fellers on this board mentioned a change of thinking might cut in with fuel at five dollars a gallon. Well the Oz dollar is temporaly at parity with the greenback. Our fuel moves around between 1.25 and 1.35 a litre. According to Google there are 3.78 litres to the U.S. gallon. You go figure, thats where we are now.

These sorts of prices are probably more manageable in Europe but in the U.S. and Australia we have huge distances to travel...makes a difference.

 

[laurence_V]

There are some available alternative fuels such as biodesel, ethanol and hydrogen. Some go with regular biofuel or electricity, while others opt for the weird. Here are just a couple odd things people put in their car's gasoline tank. Some are effective under the right conditions, while others are not. Here it is: Alternative Fuels Gas Tank.

 

[ROGER482]

We are currently ordering a 336EH Hybrid, looking at the Fuel savings over and above our current 336E's the inital $'s difference between the two models is recouped in 12 Months at current fuel prices. Our machines are used on our own projects as opposed to general hire, so imo we can only benefit from this tecnology.




I have just checked on Finsight our first 336E has now done 782 Hrs and has used 19,246 Liters of Fuel which equates to 24.6 Liters PH not bad at all imo.

 

[Dualie]

I think CNG is the only viable one of the above mentioned options.

 

[ROGER482]

The point I was trying to make in my previous post was, at the moment there is not an alternative to Diesel. We trialed 1,000 Liters of blended Biodiesel in a Cat 330DL, the cost of the amount of filters we had put on and the time it took with Trucks stood far out weighed any savings made in the inital purchase price.