1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Aftermarket heads/parts for Cats.

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by LowBoy, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. earthscratcher

    earthscratcher Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    266
    Occupation:
    excavating contractor
    Location:
    iowa
    i bought one of those itialian made ones i would suggest taking it straight to the head shop have deck checked and do a valve job.i installed it and thought it was a timing issue then work started and this machine set past the warranty. after much head scratching and thinking the timing was a 180 out. the valves where not seating properly and i kept looking past it since it was a brand new head.

    so after the head went thru the shop all good now,talked to several guys who installed these and no problems i just happened to get one that the valve guy on the line had a bad night.i also installed aftermarket injectors in this b model cat after 40 hrs run time i had two injector failures.i installed all new cats for 60 bucks a piece more, and it was a whole different engine.

    so after much help from the HEF crew, and being a tightass,and having to do several steps twice,i am now a better mechanic then i once was.
     
    LowBoy likes this.
  2. LowBoy

    LowBoy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,106
    Occupation:
    Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
    Location:
    Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders

    I didn't go with the Italian head, I went with HHP (Highway & Heavy Parts) out of Coleman, Michigan. We studied it before we put it on and it all appears to be 100%. Everything bolted up to it perfectly. It's all together, and today I think I'll finally have it running.

    I bought all brand new internal parts, most from HHP except for the piston coolers from Cat, which after a 4 hour round trip there and back upon opening the bags they came in, discovered they don't sell the bolts to hold them in with them; so back to Cat for 6 bolts. Later I found I could have bought those through HHP as well.

    New oil pump, 6 new Interstate McBee injectors/nozzles from HHP, pretty much everything I could think of came from the people at HHP. Very helpful, knowledgeable and 1/3rd the price. They have a very laid back attitude about warranty as well, so if anything is awry, I have a good feeling that they'll be easy to work with as opposed to Cat.

    The operations manager from HHP called me to thank me for the recent "activity" and we chatted for quite a while. He was very informative about where OEM parts come from these days, and revealed a few details that made me feel quite at ease with my decision to go aftermarket. I admitted to him that I was a little uneasy about not going with a Cat reman head at first, but when I thought about the fact that those recon heads are only as good as the guy or machine repairing them, I was more comfortable knowing from him that they buy from the same exact manufacturers that all the OEM's do, and the biggest revelation was, he explained that everybody is always so adamant about buying Cat liners because they're "better". Well, come to find out that there are only TWO manufacturers of cylinder liners in the WORLD, and they are both in CHINA.

    It might say CAT on them, but they come from either one of the two places in China that makes them for everybody else. It's all about the SPECS that the manufacturer has to build to; they must comply with the spec's per the customer, so different brands offer different quality. I had one guy say "yeah, but the quality of the steel in China isn't as good"...well, tell that to Cat then. Die-Hard Cat guys think they're the best...but that information just broke the myth.

    It's like anything else, opinions. There's a repair shop down the road here that does many, many rebuilds in trucks, loaders, equipment and uses nothing but Interstate McBee in all his rebuilds, never has any problems with the parts.
     
    92U 3406 likes this.
  3. Crummy

    Crummy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    Idaho
    Boy does that burn my hide. It's easy to find examples of the brand name stamped on one side and "Made in China" on the other (the paddle latches on my service truck & DC reversing solenoids recent examples for me). If paying a big premium for "Acme, Inc" branded writes the paycheck for factory workers here and is a superior quality I'm more than willing to do that but the thought of just boosting the stock price and CEO's pay and filling the liquor cabinet on the corporate jet with booze I can't afford just makes my blood boil.

    Somewhere I read that there's a factory making hydraulic fittings that almost literally puts some in a Big Brand A box, some in a Big Brand B box, and some in an unbranded box.
     
    LowBoy likes this.
  4. Wes J

    Wes J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    649
    Location:
    Peoria, IL
    I'm sorry, but that is not true. I've personally been in a local facility that casts and machines cylinder liners for Cat engines. I believe they also machine some in house but I'm not sure about the castings. There are several large scale manufacturers of cylinder liners here in the US such as Melling, Mahle, Federal Mogul, etc.

    Maybe he was talking about just the 3406 mechanical liners, in which case maybe they do all come from China. I don't know.

    I know all Cat ring gears come from India. I used to work in a foundry that installed them on Cat torque converter bowls.
     
    LowBoy and DB2 like this.
  5. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,059
    Location:
    sw missouri
    My brother in law is a purchasing guy for a us company. I think he goes to china a couple times a year.

    He always says the specs are important, but not nearly as important as the quality control. You can give them all the specs you want, but you need to be paying QC separately, and checking the stuff when it gets here, or they will ship you whatever they can get by with. They have no issues with paying off quality control.
     
    LowBoy likes this.
  6. earthscratcher

    earthscratcher Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    266
    Occupation:
    excavating contractor
    Location:
    iowa
    i will have to check out HHP on my next rebuild,keep us posted on how everything breaks in on the new rebuild.my guy that works on the heads told me that on a cat reman head its not totally replaced, any parts that are within spec, stays on head, so your not getting all new parts. not sure i like that for how much you have to give for them.

    when it comes to just surface wear aftermarket parts a guy just needs to check around. i thought i had a great price on aftermarket pins and bushings. always checking against cat and deere parts,after buying a lingkbelt hoe i thought i would call rexco the lingkbelt dealer just to see how much my tightass was saving. well they beat the aftermarket guy and i will be buying from them.
     
    LowBoy likes this.
  7. earthscratcher

    earthscratcher Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    266
    Occupation:
    excavating contractor
    Location:
    iowa
    crummy i just bought some aftermarket 80mm bushing they must of messed up, it had the john deere wrapper on it inside.so i would say its all true
     
  8. LowBoy

    LowBoy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,106
    Occupation:
    Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
    Location:
    Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
    I failed to mention that about QC, and you're 100% correct about that. You can cry specs all you want, at the end of the day it is definitely all about QC and what's leaving the mfg.

    To elaborate on that, I ended up with a snag with this new head Sunday. I fired the engine up and it ran beautifully for 5 minutes, then developed a bad rap and I had to shut it down. Long story short, #6 exhaust valve bridge is stuck fast down with the valves open, kissing that piston with 5 minutes of run time. It bent the push rod and spit it off to the side thankfully. The bridge is jammed on the stud so bad I can't pry it off.

    Consulted with HHP yesterday, sent pics of that #6 bridge with a tape measure showing height of the bridge compared to another one that has valves closed, and it's plainly visible that it's stuck down, so they're getting that bridge back with the head to confirm.

    Either a bad line bore upon installation, or when they were lifting it on or off the assembly bench with the straps/chains, it made contact with that stud and bent it slightly. What a bummer it is taking this head back off today. It was running nicely and no leaks whatsoever. Oh well...Murphy's Law again.
     
  9. LowBoy

    LowBoy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,106
    Occupation:
    Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
    Location:
    Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
    Maybe he was talking specifically about 3406 liners, not sure but he's not the only one I've heard that said that. I do know most Cummins components (at least for N-14's) come from India now. It's certainly not an American market for most anything at the moment.