Advice for my first big job

[OldandWorn]

I finally got the last bit of trench after the culvert finished on my neighbor’s property. That was after 3 weekends of hand shoveling because it was too wet for machinery, a weekend with 8” of snow which I didn’t work, and this past weekend with beautiful weather. Since my neighbor filled most of the trench with gravel for his drain system, and I haven’t finished filling the trench on my property, the trench before and after the culvert are the only major parts that I had to fill all the way to the top and I’m finding out that fill dirt is at a premium. When I was digging the trench I placed the sod along side of the spoil pile just to keep it separate but I didn’t have any intention of reusing it. The wet weather in the past month kept the sod in pretty good shape and most of it had about 4” of soil still attached to it. After scratching the ground for every last bit of dirt from the spoil piles I was still short so I used the sod to get to the top. I’m guessing there will be settling over the next few years and I may have to top off the trench from time to time but every little bit helps and it has a nice finished look. I’m most likely going to need some fill hauled in when I continue with the trenching as I can’t think of anyplace on my property that wouldn’t contain a lot of rocks.

Question…..Has anyone ever used plastic under their spoil piles? I have a large 6’ wide roll of heavy black plastic and I was thinking about trying it. Since I can dig and fill only a small amount per week the sheet wouldn’t have to be but maybe 60’ long and could be reused if not too torn up. I want it close to the edge of the trench so I would have to roll it out as I go to keep the wheels and stabilizer off of it. I’m hoping this would save on cleanup time and allow me to reuse almost all of the dirt if I find that I’m running a little short. Also, the hill is going to be a dirt eater which I will explain later.

The black angled line with debris and soil around it is the last 30’ of trench going into the culvert that I finished this weekend.





I ended up putting a lot more rock on top of the gravel just to get rid of them. There are actually 2 natural paths for the water. One of which is under the big rocks slightly to the right of center which I think is coming from under the culvert pipe and the little stream flowing across the pic which is the water coming out of the pipe itself.





I saved the really nasty clay and rock spoil piles for last in case I needed some more dirt. I did have to use some from a pile which is to the left just out of the pic and the one in the pic got spread out and lost after I was done filling. It actually looks pretty good down there now.





I’m happy with the way the vegetation came back under the spoil piles at the start of the run. There are even a few small weeds growing on top of the trench already.

 

[forester]

In regards to plastic and spoil piles I see this done at times usually for conservation of topsoil before going into the parent soils. Only issue is that it's tough to roll up afterwards and tears easy with equipment teeth. Plus you mgiht kill the grass faster if it's left due blocking light/forcing water to pool underneath.

Works well for smaller jobs (think city parks and front lawns) but for anything larger scale in the woods I usually just see it piled and dealt with afterwards via recountouring and seeding.

 

[OldandWorn]

In regards to plastic and spoil piles I see this done at times usually for conservation of topsoil before going into the parent soils. Only issue is that it's tough to roll up afterwards and tears easy with equipment teeth. Plus you mgiht kill the grass faster if it's left due blocking light/forcing water to pool underneath.

Works well for smaller jobs (think city parks and front lawns) but for anything larger scale in the woods I usually just see it piled and dealt with afterwards via recountouring and seeding.

Thanks forester....I was thinking of the same negatives but might try a short section to see how it goes.

 

[OldandWorn]

I want to finish the trench that I started up on my property next but here is the hill I have to trench down eventually. Not super steep but enough to make me uncomfortable and it’s about 600’ long. I have slope meters on my Ag tractor and they are telling me about 12 degrees or a 21 percent slope worst case. At the bottom of the dip is the last creek which has an old iron pipe that spans the width of the road. The right side has a very steep drop off and the left side where my trench will run is somewhat level. I may have to stay on the road and try to dig off center. This is where a side shift hoe or small excavator would come in handy.





Not too much working room here, hill on left and steep drop off on right.





Hard to tell from the pic but there is a deep erosion rut on the left that runs almost the length of the hill. If I have to place my spoil pile on top of the rut I will loose a fair amount of the dirt. I want to try the 24” bucket which means more dirt to find a spot for.

 

[OldandWorn]

There are all kinds of sharp pointy objects at the bottom of the ravine on the right side of the trail. Hopefully I won’t have to make any “on the fly” decisions.





Up towards the top I have more breathing room on the right.







And finally over the top where it’s straight and level. Notice the skid mark on the left.





Here is what gave me some seat suckage when I took the hoe down for the first time few weeks ago. It was early morning and the grass was still wet. Going slow in low gear the hoe started to speed up on its own. I knew what was happening and I didn’t like the outcome if I couldn’t get the hoe back in control. My first thought was to engage the difflock but it’s a slow process. I think that it needs to find a slot to lock into and it seems to take forever sometimes. I revved the motor up to match the hoe speed and then slowly back down and luckily I got my traction back. If it would have gained much more speed I’m not sure this would have worked.

 

[boone]

Bet you'd have some great views for a house site on top of that hill! Is that your plan?

 

[OldandWorn]

That's the plan Boone. My property is a bit unique as there is a plateau about 100' higher than the surrounding land except for the part that the river runs through. I see Lee down there in his van quite often. At the back property line it gains another 1000' in elevation. I have a nice spot picked out that will be perfect grade for a walkout basement. The property is all wooded right now so most of the views are obscured but with a little clearing in the back of the house I will have a great view of an endless mountain range or two.

 

[boone]

Nice! Sounds like plenty of projects to keep you AND your equipment busy.

 

[OldandWorn]

Back to the original trench on my property getting caught up with the phone conduit. I was able to install both directions at the same time in this case which was a big plus. I found 8X8X4 inch plastic weatherproof boxes at Lowes and Home Depot. I would like to have gone with 10X10's but the next size up was 12X12X6 and they are really huge looking.






I wish I would have known about this pull string when I did my first run. I saw some Verizon guys using it the other day and found it at electrical supply houses. There is 6500’ in the bucket, way more than I need, but this is the smallest quantity I believe and it was inexpensive. I will most likely never need it but it’s cheap insurance.

 

[ijoker]

Yeah that is basic pull line. We use it all the time. It works great with a vacuum and mouse. We have even been known to use a basic sandwich bag in place of the mouse. I don't think phone companies care so much, but our power company around here wants us to use a heavier string than that for their conduits. I forget the number for it offhand, but it is orange instead of blue. It will go in using a vacuum, but not as easy as the blue string. We use the blue string as much as we can because it is cheaper. On another note Oldandworn, i never knew the hill you were talking about had trees to deal with. And that spot between the hill on the left and the dropoff on the right. That looks scary. All i can say is, good luck, and beeeeeee careful!

 

[OldandWorn]

Thanks for your input ijoker. I saw the red/orange stuff next to the blue at about twice the price. I'm running the phone wire and pull string as I add conduit so in the future if the need arises the string will be there. The POCO wants the 1/4" yellow rope which I'm pulling also.

Trees to deal with? I'm not sure what you mean, the hill is all open and I don't have to take any trees down. If you mean that one tree on the side I'll be a aiming for that one if I start sliding down the hill.

 

[ijoker]

Well i hope that doesn't happen. All i meant with the trees was the picture with all the trees there. I realize you are not digging where the trees are. Didn't mean to throw you with that. ops

 

[OldandWorn]

Oh sorry ijoker, I understand now.

 

[OldandWorn]

From post #62

Sorry to be off topic but I noticed in an earlier post you had mentioned having 2 transformers to feed your place resulting in another meter. What is the distance between the pole barn and your house? Can you not split the difference with the transformer between the 2?. Beside the transformer have 1 meter on a post feeding a splitter, then run secondary to your buildings from there. A second meter will usually have basic charges applied to it whether you use any power or not. And thats forever.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the transformer placement before the power engineer came out and we settled on a location close to the barn because I couldn't say for sure where the house was going to be built. I like the setup but the thought of multiple meter payments just doesn’t sit well with me. It’s like a lifelong balloon payment and you never know what the future rates will be. If I don’t get around to erecting another building or 2 in this area the meter would only serve the barn and there is a good possibility I wouldn’t meet the monthly minimum electricity usage. I got to thinking about this again and spent the entire day Saturday walking the area trying to figure out what to do. 1800’ is to the transformer location at the barn and in the future I would have to dig and pay for another 300’ of high voltage line at a minimum of $8 a foot to the second transformer close to the home site. The plus is that all secondary wire to the meters is provided for free.

Here is the current setup. The trench will continue in front of the barn and across 2 driveways, all of which is nicely surfaced, to the transformer location on the other side of the barn where the pink flag is.







Then down this road to another transformer at the future home site.

 

[OldandWorn]

If the engineer will allow me to change the transformer location this is what I may go with although I’m still debating the conduit path. This would be only one transformer and one meter for all buildings. If I go behind the barn I can reach the new location with maybe a little more high voltage line over the 1800’ at a savings of say $2000 off of the future 300’ run. I have a little too much conduit in the ground to make the turn so I would have to abandon 20 to 30’. The downside is I would have to buy and pull all of the secondary wire, 150’ to the barn and 150’ to the future house at a cost of maybe $2 per foot but still way ahead in savings not to mention the extra meter charge for life. I would also be able to power all of my buildings from one central location with my backup generator.

The end of the conduit is bottom left and I would need to go straight up the center of the pic through all of that dense brush to the right of the barn. The route looks bad but the ground is pretty level from what I can see of it. My 955 and an experienced operator could clear that in probably 15 minutes but knowing me I will turn it into an all day affair just to savor the moment.





More brush behind the barn. This is where the friendly doe lives but she’s just gonna have to deal with a little home wrecking. I don’t see her pitching in for the property taxes. :crazy





More brush





The spot that I picked for the transformer is just to the right of that big stump. It was a difficult and lengthy decision because there is not much flat buildable ground back there and I was trying to predict where future out buildings could fit. I don’t want the transformer getting in the way of things and I had to pick a spot that I knew would be at grade. There will also be a post close to the transformer where the meter and breaker box will be mounted to. All of the conduit runs to any buildings will come from that breaker box and the power company will only have to come out one time for the high voltage pull and single meter install.

 

[Ando]

O&W, good thread mate, it makes an interesting read.

I understand your difficult decision on where to put the tranny. When I put my power in, the placement was great......until years later when I built a bridge over the creek and a new access road. Now, as you drive up toward the house, the pole/transformer is directly in the line of sight :Banghead

 

[OldandWorn]

O&W, good thread mate, it makes an interesting read.

I understand your difficult decision on where to put the tranny. When I put my power in, the placement was great......until years later when I built a bridge over the creek and a new access road. Now, as you drive up toward the house, the pole/transformer is directly in the line of sight :Banghead

Thanks Ando, I'm getting great advice here and I enjoy posting the progress.

 

[ijoker]

Just out of curiosity, Oldandworn, if you do decide to go with one transformer halfway between the barn and the home, what size service do you intend to build? 400 amps? If this is the case i think you would be wise to plant 2 pressure treated 4x4's and put a piece of plywood across them for a backboard. It has been a while since I installed one, but you can get a residential meter box with 2 200 main breakers in it. As i recall these boxes are pretty wide. Too wide i think for a 4x4 or even a 6x6 post. It might fit on a 6x6 post. I really don't recall just how wide it is. But the backboard would support the weight of that box much better than just mounting it on a post. And also eliminate the possibility of side to side wobble, thus loosening the mounting screws. I have seen this happen before, that is why i mention it. Another advantage the backboard would have is versatility. Say you have 200 amps goin to the home and 200 amps going to the barn and you want to build an equipment shed not far from the service. You could use the 200 amp breaker feeding the barn to feed a new panel mounted to the backboard and use that panel to refeed the barn and feed the new equipment shed. Just some food for thought. Maybe you already have it all figured out, and i am wasting my breath?

 

[OldandWorn]

Just out of curiosity, Oldandworn, if you do decide to go with one transformer halfway between the barn and the home, what size service do you intend to build? 400 amps? If this is the case i think you would be wise to plant 2 pressure treated 4x4's and put a piece of plywood across them for a backboard. It has been a while since I installed one, but you can get a residential meter box with 2 200 main breakers in it. As i recall these boxes are pretty wide. Too wide i think for a 4x4 or even a 6x6 post. It might fit on a 6x6 post. I really don't recall just how wide it is. But the backboard would support the weight of that box much better than just mounting it on a post. And also eliminate the possibility of side to side wobble, thus loosening the mounting screws. I have seen this happen before, that is why i mention it. Another advantage the backboard would have is versatility. Say you have 200 amps goin to the home and 200 amps going to the barn and you want to build an equipment shed not far from the service. You could use the 200 amp breaker feeding the barn to feed a new panel mounted to the backboard and use that panel to refeed the barn and feed the new equipment shed. Just some food for thought. Maybe you already have it all figured out, and i am wasting my breath?

ijoker, any ideas are very much appreciated as they could prevent a major blunder. I would go with a 400 amp service with this single install and there are no extra POCO charges up to 400 amps. In reality, a 200 amp service would be fine for my expected usage but I hate doing things twice so I may as well do the 400. I did say “post” but it will be a 2 pole structure like you mentioned. I have been following house building threads on other forums and have seen how large the electrical service area can become. The existing pole barn has a gravel floor and will most likely just become a machine storage building if I eventually build some more structures around it. Even so, I want to run a 200 amp service to it because future buildings up that way will be sub-paneled from it.

I also would like to build a simple lean-to or something of that sort to keep most weather off of the meter and panels. I scored a really cool 1961 military generator (I like old stuff) powered by a legendary Continental Red Seal 4 banger and I want to house it in a small shack. The generator shack will be a great attachment point for the panel equipment lean-to but I have to make sure I find the right spot so everything will fit. I also want to run the genny on propane so I need to consider a spot for the tank as well. These dang decisions and planning just keep piling up from a simple task as to where to place the transformer. :Banghead

 

[ijoker]

That's a cool generator. My cousin has one similar to that. Does it have automatic electric start?