AC Refrigerant is changing, Again

[DMiller]

Seems 134A is to phase out, R1234YF will be the Next on the market, changes gauges and connector fittings Again as well refrigerant oil, none of in service Compressors or Expansion valving will be compatible. Caution to this stuff is Primarily "Denatured LP Gas": Propane, so is Flammable, just at a different rate than straight Propane.

 

[56wrench]

20+ years for R134A. I wondered how long before there was something new I’ve not had any a/c issues for years—touch wood. I’m pretty sure I won’t be investing in any more a/c tools at my age

 

[DMiller]

Even worse is the R32 or R454b for Home systems, NONE of the existing systems are compatible with the stuff, so any core failures and a lack of reclaimed 410 will be required to replace an entire system regardless is relatively recent or functional save that leak. That from the HVAC guys that installed our now 10 year old GSHP that has 410a in it. Uncertainty hovers around the current Mini Split systems.

 

[Old Doug]

What a deal i wonder how long before it takes effect ? I was given some reclaimer stuff i need to get working . I reclaimed some 134a the other day.

 

[92U 3406]

Pretty sure R1234YF has been around for a while now. A couple years anyways.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I have heard that 1234 is pretty much 1:1 compatible with 134, basically no changes to hard parts. However I am not sure about the oil.

 

[CM1995]

Even worse is the R32 or R454b for Home systems, NONE of the existing systems are compatible with the stuff, so any core failures and a lack of reclaimed 410 will be required to replace an entire system regardless is relatively recent or functional save that leak. That from the HVAC guys that installed our now 10 year old GSHP that has 410a in it. Uncertainty hovers around the current Mini Split systems.

Yep. Wife and I will have to deal with this in our current home. When the system craps out we're looking at $10K to replace.

Planning on keeping the house as a rental once we build or move.

 

[DMiller]

What a deal i wonder how long before it takes effect ? I was given some reclaimer stuff i need to get working . I reclaimed some 134a the other day.

Jan 1 2025

 

[DMiller]

Sadly have to replace Rec Drier and expansion system with Compressor and oil to use 1234yf, not compatible with 134a system components. It is Propane Based. Takes special machine to recover and to charge with a different fitting style. First available 2015, in use in a few cars 2021, not currently in HE Trucks or a vast variety of autos.

And Yes, considered Flammable.

 

[mekanik]

The patent on R134a is probably about to expire soon.
Too bad we can't just go back to Freon!

 

[DMiller]

Never proved produced the Ozone hole that does not go away, blame all and any other component down to Musk Starlink and reentering defunct satellites as to causing it. Now claiming it presents a 100 Year Global Warming Potential, sad and defined stupid true.

Spoke to BIL as found this last part out, all the EV buses use 134a for cooling the Coolant that surrounds the batteries in them, CANNOT use 1234yf or any other flammable refrigerant. Manufacturer said NO. Wonder if Musks EVs use this stuff?

 

[LN Pipeline]

Natural gas works well in a R134A system. I bought a keg from Envirosafe several years ago and have it in multiple vehicles and equipment.

The biggest problem with it is knowing how much to put in a system. It’s just a guess. The fact that it’s flammable/explosive has never really bothered me.

I think I paid $110 for the 30 pound keg when I bought it.

 

[IceHole]

Pretty sure R1234YF has been around for a while now. A couple years anyways.

Been around for over 10 years, started being used in cars in 2013. Will be all that cars have by the next year or two.

 

[IceHole]

Sadly have to replace Rec Drier and expansion system with Compressor and oil to use 1234yf, not compatible with 134a system components. It is Propane Based. Takes special machine to recover and to charge with a different fitting style. First available 2015, in use in a few cars 2021, not currently in HE Trucks or a vast variety of autos.

And Yes, considered Flammable.

Was used starting in 2013 in some Cadillacs.

 

[DMiller]

BIL called back
His buds still at the Metro garage stated are using R744 or R714(?), CO2 and NH3, memories of 1903!!

Work at Lower pressures and volumes.

 

[Tyler d4c]

Natural gas works well in a R134A system. I bought a keg from Envirosafe several years ago and have it in multiple vehicles and equipment.

The biggest problem with it is knowing how much to put in a system. It’s just a guess. The fact that it’s flammable/explosive has never really bothered me.

I think I paid $110 for the 30 pound keg when I bought it.

I remember when 134a was 110 bucks for a keg ah good old 2017 (may have been 115)

 

[92U 3406]

Sadly have to replace Rec Drier and expansion system with Compressor and oil to use 1234yf, not compatible with 134a system components. It is Propane Based. Takes special machine to recover and to charge with a different fitting style. First available 2015, in use in a few cars 2021, not currently in HE Trucks or a vast variety of autos.

And Yes, considered Flammable.

Our parts guy needed some for his '17 or '18 Chevy recently. It was about 4x the price of 134 if I'm remembering it right.

 

[Truck Shop]

Has to change, it's all part of commerce, other wise you would be still buying the same
old Kelvinator from 1952----and those didn't come with automatic ice cube maker.

 

[mekanik]

But they lasted for 30 to 40 years. A new fridge may last 15 years if you are lucky!

 

[JD955SC]

What a deal i wonder how long before it takes effect ? I was given some reclaimer stuff i need to get working . I reclaimed some 134a the other day.

2025 is when manufacturers will start to switch over, EPA has a drop dead date of 2028 for new machines to come with R-1224yf

Figure a price of $100 per pound, $2500 for the 25 lb cylinder, can be had in smaller quantities.

Oh and you will need new gauges, and new oil injector or a new shop machine. New shop machine is $13k. You do not want to cross contaminate.

Still uses a PAG oil in most applications, but it’s a different formulation of additives. Some applications use special oil.

Pressures are pretty close because boiling point is pretty close.


You can thank DuPont and Honeywell for their fine lobbying efforts, and the idiots venting refrigerant for bringing this all around.