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A tired Case 850

Discussion in 'Track Loaders' started by Deere John, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
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    Occupation:
    Professional Forester
    Location:
    North Bay, Ontario
    A friend this week purchased a Case 850 track loader with backhoe attachment. He was told it is a 1974 era machine. It has considerable blowby, and is addicted to ether to get it started in the morning.

    He would like to do an in-frame on the engine to tighten things up. Do you know who made the engine in this machine? What model, displacement, etc? Liners? With this basic info, we can go forward with bearings, rings, gaskets and so on.

    Thanks on my friend's behalf.
     
  2. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    John,
    If still original engine it should be a Case 301.
    You should try to confirm this with a model no on the engine number tag.
    There should be plenty of after market sources for parts near you.
    Hopefully someone will steer you in the right direction.

    This shows a dozer, but numbers should be in similar locations
     

    Attached Files:

    Coy Lancaster likes this.
  3. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    retired operator and mechanic
    Location:
    Southeastern Ontario
    Here is a source I use for parts:http://www.fawcett.cc/
    I understand that used parts like crankshafts are getting very hard to find for those engines, if it's the same one used in the 680C backhoe. I've heard that cylinder heads were well known for cracking also. I have 2 heads off a 267 but I think both may be cracked. Also know someone who used to wreck these engines if you need a part. Phil:)
     
  4. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    Professional Forester
    Location:
    North Bay, Ontario
    Thank you both for the information. The owner called me yesterday with some numbers (and I left them at work :rolleyes:) but JIC was cast into the block, so it must be a Case engine as you say. It is still a runner, but smokes white continually. The head will be coming off this weekend, so we'll give it a good going over.
     
  5. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

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    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Google: Case Terratrac Crawlers ...they have some good knowledge of Case gear & parts.
     
  6. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    The head came off today, and things may not be as grim as first thought. There is a 1" hole in a piston, explaining the blowby. Unfortunately, we didn't do a compression test first, so a liner/ring/bearing job is in order anyway.

    Does anyone know of the basic torque specs of the engine? Intake and exhaust valve clearances? It does seem to be a Case 301 diesel. Thanks
     
  7. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    Here are some pics of the old girl. It does have the 301 Case engine, with a 4.375" bore. We will be shopping for a rebuild kit for it, and put it back to work. Notice the ventilated piston? The head is a little banged up too, but we think it will be fine as the damage isn't near the valves. We're hoping that the aluminum from the piston didn't do too many laps with the crank bearings:(
     

    Attached Files:

  8. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    John,
    :eek: sure must have been breathing heavy!
    what do you think made that hole? previous valve failure? overheating ?
    I would be getting injectors looked at - for sure
    Head bollts - 200 - 210 ft lbs
    con rods - 95- 105 ft lbs
    mains - 145 - 155 ft lbs
    tappets in 015"
    ex 025"
    balancer is timed - check marks if you remove it & watch for shims
    Seen quite a few crawlers turn into vibrating compactors due to mistimed balancers!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
    Coy Lancaster likes this.
  9. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    Thank you alrman. Not sure what caused it. The seller apparently reported that it had new injectors. I believe they are pencil injectors in this machine, so a quick trip to the injection shop may be in order. Would ether cause this meltdown? The other 3 cylinders were pretty relaxed in their bores, so ether was provided in quantity, and maybe this one cried uncle.

    Phil, I'm checking your link for the rebuild kit. It's not my machine, but I too am getting anxious to get the mains off and take a look at the crank and old bearings.

    Can the rear main seal be changed on an inframe job?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
  10. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    Looks like it's been damaged a while - maybe when you pull the pistons, the story might be told a little more.
    Bad injectors will blow holes in pistons & through cyl walls ....
    post pics of piston when it's out......just curious
     
  11. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    Yes you can change rear main - but it will involve dropping out the convertor & flywheel
    - fun job!
     
  12. ih100

    ih100 Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Looks like a hosing injector to me - Best change all four to be safe, and flush the tank. No telling what they've tried to run it on in the past.
     
  13. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    I'm having trouble finding an engine service manual for this engine. Does anyone know if it is also know as a Case/IH 301, or an IH 301? These other manuals are plentiful, but I'm not sure they are for the same basic engine.

    I'm looking for info on how to shim the fancy oil pump in the middle of the crank area, fuel injector torque, ring gap clearance, you know, the usual basic information.

    Thanks
     
  14. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    John,
    It's a CASE 301 - theres no IH in Case construction equipment, only the red stuff......
    The fancy oil pump is the balancer I spoke about in the earlier post - it's timed to crank.
    Usually the same shims you took out could go back in - .006" - 010" backlash rings a bell.
    The company I purchase aftermarket rebuild kits from here have very good spec sheets that are supplied with parts - maybe who ever you are buying from has same ????
    I do have manual but it takes some time to pull apart / scan etc..........
    If you're REALLY STUCK I can help - Local Case dealer may help ?
     
    Coy Lancaster likes this.
  15. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    Thank you alrman. I will ask the owner to order the rebuild kit and see what directions come with it. It does make sense that they provide directions. Now that I know IH and Case are not incestuary in the construction equipment line, I'll seach some more, starting with my Case dealer. I'm the "Executive in Charge of Gathering Intelligence" on this project.

    I'll take some more pics too. When the pistons and liners were pulled, a second piston had a hole burned through the top. Small, but still a hole. The end-to-end ring gap was approaching 0.20 inches - all added up, I'm amazed that this thing ran. The injectors are off to be checked too.
     
  16. danda

    danda New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
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    2
    Location:
    California
    any updates?

    I'd be very curious to hear how your rebuild experience has gone.

    I'm in a similar situation. I've got a Case 850 with 301BD engine that was sitting for several years. I got it lubed up and running ok, but it was leaking water out of the flywheel housing of all places. Maybe a freeze-plug at rear of engine?

    Anyway, we exercised the engine mildly for perhaps 5 minutes trying to lift the crawler up onto blocks to better checkout the leak. Apparently it objected because it threw a rod. Or at least that's what I suspect... it made evil noises, I shut it down immediately and then I found metal shavings on the dipstick and bigger ones in the pan when I took it off. I haven't removed the oil pump yet for a real good look. The strange thing is that I had just put in a new oil filter and topped off the water and the oil, and both were still full after I shut it off.

    Yeah... so I'm shopping for rebuild kits, and trying to decide if this old beast is even worth the time and $. I found a good deal on a Clevite kit on ebay... does anyone have experience with Clevite? Or recommend somebody else?

    Or better yet, does anyone know of an aftermarket distributor for kits in california (bay area)? There is a Case dealer here, but they are way $$$.

    I see the kit includes the pistons but not the rods, is that normal?

    Also, I've still got that water leak to worry about, so I guess I'm best off taking the engine out and do an out-of-frame.

    thoughts?
     
  17. Deere John

    Deere John Well-Known Member

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    Professional Forester
    Location:
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    I owe you guys an update. A rebuild kit was ordered from the states, and a complete (reprint) Case manual was ordered from US Ebay. The heads were redone, the injectors checked and the engine put back together. The fancy oil pump/balancer was shimmed into place thanks to the manual - don't try it without - and everything went about as good as could be hoped. The engine was fired on water for testing with some cheap oil for startup. After confirming oil pressure and no leaks, the oil was dumped in favour of dino 15W 40. Then the waterpump let go, so that has been a delay.

    At this point, it is a runner, and the backhoe is being installed. Sorry, no pics of the rebuild as I wasn't there, but I get some of the whole unit when it is together. If you are stuck for a source for kits, I'll ask the owner where it came from.

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Tarhe Driver likes this.
  18. Coaldriver

    Coaldriver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Smokey Mountains
    I have a Case 850 loader. Just a straight 850. It is missing the transmission. This guy we did earthmoving for had the loader and he paid us to take the transmission out (many, many years ago). He took the trans to get it fixed and never brought it back. He owed us money for the repair and money from an earthmoving job we did for him. So, we have kept the loader and he has never came back to pay us to get it. So it is mine.
    But I have no transmission and it has been sitting. I think it has 4-5 thousand hours on it. Not too many. But, the UC looks kinda worn. I think I am better off parting it out considering the hoses are getting rotten looking, it is missing a trans, and it is just generally an old machine.
    What engine does my loader have?
    What could I get for it?
    I suppose I could change filters and crank it to verify that it runs good.
    What could I get for the rest of the loader?So, It is a case 301 engine?
    I have a case tractor that may have the same engine but it is a fresh rebuilt engine. Probably not worth it for me to store an extra engine.
     
  19. frankieavalanche

    frankieavalanche Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    canada
    Hi Coal driver
    I purchased and old 750 case track loader with an in frame engine overhaul already done. It ran great but leaked oil bad from the rear and front crank seals so i had to remove the torque converter and the radiator to change the seals to stop the oil leaks and blow by
     
  20. Coaldriver

    Coaldriver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Smokey Mountains
    Hi. Is my loader a CASE 301?
    Are these engines bad quality?