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A few projects I have done recently

Discussion in 'Showtime!' started by CM1995, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    No worries share any project. I really enjoy seeing other folks work.

    How do you like the crusher bucket? How much concrete debris can it crush in an hour?

    On a side note I'm been thinking about starting an off-shoot company to crush concrete and re-sell it. Up until the last couple of years it wasn't economically feasible to recycled concrete as my area is rich in limestone and rock quarries are all over the place. However #57 washed stone at the quarries is creeping up to $15-17 a ton, then you have to haul it which puts it at $20- 25 a ton delivered for a 25 ton tri-axle load. The $$'s are starting to make sense in crushing concrete.

    I know the crusher bucket on an excavator is not going to produce enough per hour for re-sell in a recycling operation but if you can crush small amounts of demo debris on site for re-use that could be a money maker. What I am considering is jaw crusher feeding a 3 product screen. Our Cat dealer also sells Screenmachine and Irock dealer that also rents. Considering dipping my toe into crushing with a rental.

    The arena project was almost big enough to rent a jaw and crush the flatwork and asphalt but we would have still had to haul the material off, the schedule is tight and my dump is a 30-45 min round trip from the site. So it didn't make sense on this one.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
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  2. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    Cm is your dump site yours and you control it

    Location is key to recycling or the ability to stockpile it it for your own use we have looked into it there are about 4 or 5 locations here that recycle concrete into ABC I have not seen any marketed recycled rock of any sort
     
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  3. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Yes the dump is mine and I control it. The location is great in relation to our downtown area. The plan would be to set up a crushing operation at this site.

    What size is your ABC? Similar to crusher run or dense grade base?

    There is a demo company that is making three products - #57's, #24's and #8910. Basically 3/4", 1.5-2" and fines. You better call ahead to make sure they have any 57's and 24's since it usually leaves the belt and into a truck. They only take cash or credit cards - no credit accounts. They run $8 per ton for #57's last time I checked.

    The price of entry is steep at around $1M investment with a crusher and screen. Already have the excavators to feed it but probably would need a wheel loader to move produced material.

    Just an idea. Obviously the economic climate is not conducive for such an investment. Have to see what the economy does and get through the November elections.
     
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  4. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Based on the condition of the ductile iron, would someone care to have another stab at why terracotta wouldn't do the turd removal job waaaay better than ductile iron..? Terracotta is slipperier inside than the slippiest thing you can imagine, and it stays that way for life. Re-route and run it outside the building maybe..? On the face of it would make more sense to replace the ductile iron with HDPE if terracotta is not acceptable, but I suppose that doesn't meet Codes either........ :confused::confused:
     
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  5. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    I agree Nige. Ductile iron is a poor choice for sewer lines IMO.

    However when there are 3 ductile iron rolling mills in the city $$ on a high political level has influence in spec's and codes.. McWane, ACIPCO and US Pipe all have mills here.

    PVC/HDPE is my choice for sewer lines. Terracotta was long gone before I came into the construction market.

    Side story -

    They built a new Taco Bell at a suburban strip mall a few years ago and within a year the ductile iron service lateral was completely deteriorated all the way to the manhole. We were having an inspection company camera a new line we had installed and they showed us the video they took. There was a thin layer of the what looked like the cement lining left, you could see the #57 stone bedding.:eek:

    Don't know if it was defective pipe or just Montezuma's revenge one gets from eating Taco Bell.:D
     
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  6. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    If you have the property and can rent the machines your about bullet proof you for testing the waters

    If I were in your shoes I would start with making material for my own use then go from there the biggest trick I find is quality of material you wont get a consistent material under 3 inch minus out of a jaw you need an impact crusher

    PM me if you want we looked hard at couldn't get the property nailed down had a lot of the math figured out
     
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  7. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    I would be looking to make 3 products like the competition is making as those 3 products are the most used around here. Fines for utility backfill, #57's for all sorts of uses and #24's for construction entrances and building roads in muck.

    The demo company is using a Sandvik - can't tell from the road if it's a jaw or impact. I've heard that Vulcan Materials is getting geared up to recycle concrete at their quarries around the city. We might go from not having much recycled concrete to having an abundance.

    Rental rates are around $20K a month for a crusher, I don't know what a screen is but figure it's less. Not being familiar with crushing rates I would want to have a stockpile of concrete on hand for testing the waters which is very doable. We have 3 large retainer walls to demo in addition to more flatwork on the arena job that might get stockpiled instead of used as fill.

    I've always wanted a landfill which is a lofty goal that probably will never happen however an inert recycling facility is something within reach.

    Thanks for the offer I'll send you a PM.
     
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  8. jmac

    jmac Senior Member

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    I have never seen recycled concrete for sale even though I do know of a guy taking it and crushing it. He has a huge stockpile, we have taken quite a few trucks to him and he charged us a tipping fee. Wonder if he can get a proctor and submittals approved. Wonder if the material is consistent enough? Structural fill compared to gravel maybe or crusher run type material. I want to purchase a top soil screen this year and start with that. Try to never through top soil away, just cost a lot to truck to a yard somewhere depending on were the job is located. I love the idea though, could be a great retirement venture.
     
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  9. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    I think we're on the same page jmac - not getting any younger.;)

    A topsoil screener is gold as well. There is a screened topsoil company here complete with their own tri-axles that provide screen topsoil for most of the commercial projects in the city. They get around $500-600 a load delivered in our metro area which is not too shabby. The problem with that for me is we hardly run across any topsoil of any quantity to do anything with other than re-spread behind curbs.

    Seriously doubt I could ever get any crushed concrete product to meet ALDOT specs which is the law of land in most project spec's. However structural fill, some pipe bedding, construction entrances and other "non-spec" uses are endless especially if you can be $100-200 a load cheaper than the quarry.

    My goal would be to produce a clean product with no wire or other debris which I've read is a challenge.
     
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  10. Ronsii

    Ronsii Senior Member

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    We try to use recycle concrete when ever we can: it's cheaper, it usually packs great!!! (1-1/2minus) or something like that, it does vary as to the composition and texture sometimes there lots of red brick in it ;) , there is usually a good amount of plastic bits here and there depending on just what they're crushing... there will be lots of form spreader cones, gray pvc,NMB/UF insulation, etc... sometimes there's short lengths of rebar/mesh... all in all it' works good for structural fill even in wet areas if you go with >2 inch. We have also used some bigger 4-8 inch for entries and road bed... the catch is a lot of counties won't let you use it :( their reasoning is it lowers the ph of water so it's BAD!!!!! never mind that you are actually recycling something to save materials and give then a second life. Alos getting a consistent proctor number would probably be a challenge unless you had good control of just what you were feeding the crusher.
     
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  11. willie59

    willie59 Administrator

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    Slipperier than the slippiest? I laughed way to hard at this. :D
     
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  12. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

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    Thanks! The project in the picture had brick walls and that went through the crusher pretty fast. Crusher production can vary greatly with feed material, size, and desired product. The size crusher I have will only produce about 10 yd/hr. That's not much! In my opinion the design has serious drawbacks as there is NO crushing going on while one re-loads it, and the flywheels must re-spool up (to desired RPMs) with each scoop as well. If I were to do it again I would likely go with a larger crusher than the one I ended up buying. My crushing model works best when far away from any gravel pit. I did okay on the job in the picture but I did not achieve the desired margins. The recycle/reduced carbon footprint concept is also in alignment with our local political climate here.

    I'm not sure of I would agree 100% with this. While I would agree that quality will vary I think feed material has as much, or more, to do with gradation than crusher type. I would also say that an impact crusher is likely the best type of crusher for recycling but not for hard rock. Primary jaw into a cone and then a screen is what most pits do with hard rock that requires gradation. If you are looking at mobile crushers, and then dumping into a screen, the screening process should get you the product quality anyway. Having a closed system is always best to make gradation. If I were only "recycle crushing" I would likely want an impact crusher with a 3 deck screen and a closed circuit. There are many ways to skin a cat and the previously described set up has a weakness to it as well. The impact crusher type can have problems with rebar and the jaw will usually allow the bar to fall out the bottom. Rebar can also wreak havoc on belts.

    Depending upon a few things (feed material, feed size, feed operator, etc.-I feel like a broken record) I think one could reasonably expect +/- 1,000 tons a day so you may want to have a lot of crush-able material if you think you'll have a machine for a month. One might save some mobilization, set-up time, and rent if one were to employ an impact crusher with a 3-deck screen and closed circuit and see how things go. It might not be a bad idea to consult a mobile crushing outfit as well. Maybe hire them and learn from them at the same time.
    You also used the term "inert" above. Please keep in mind that the EPA, and especially OHSA, have a lot of issues with concrete dust (silica) and anytime you crush to sell you are opening yourself up to MSHA regulation as well. As I'm sure you can imagine one can possibly open a can of worms if one were to make this a full-time venture.


    You may be correct about spec. Even if you are able to meet specific gradation you must understand that aggregate made from recycled concrete will perform different then that of hard rock. It is more similar to sandstone and will likely break down to sand/dust if left as an exposed driving surface.
    Obviously all these hurdles can be overcome. It just becomes a matter of doing some serious homework to see if it's worth the headaches, and if so, does it have the right margins.
    BTW, I sourced the windshield guard from E-Plastics.
     
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  13. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    I do some work with a outfit that has a small pipe bursting machine and pulls HDPE thru 4-6" cast, clay and ductile. Other than the small lip at the joint every 40' it's just as slick as clay. Being able to replace lines under parking lots, buildings, etc is nice too.
    One of the larger contractors has a horizontal impactor with a single deck screen that they can either go closed circuit or produce oversize. They bring in a 3 deck screen if they have a lot to crush and/or room to stockpile.
     
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  14. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    DGODGR you bring up a good point - is concrete recycling covered under MSHA or OSHA? It appears from some quick research that MSHA covers minerals and products that are excavated from the ground and processed. However there is a jurisdictional change from MSHA to OSHA when a produced material goes into a manufactured product. Like a gypsum mine and drywall plant all on the same property. The mine is covered by MSHA and the drywall plant by OSHA.

    https://www.msha.gov/msha-and-osha-memorandum

    A concrete crushing operation would clearly not be a mining operation as it's defined on the MSHA/OSHA memorandum but it's still the government where reason and logic can be a scarce commodity.:rolleyes:

    The context of the term "inert" I'm using pertains to how construction debris is classified by our state DEP. Concrete, brick, block, cured asphalt, rock, dirt, soil and land clearing debris is all classified as "inert" and not regulated - IE it has to go to a C&D landfill.
     
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  15. Raildudes dad

    Raildudes dad Senior Member

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    Another idea for consideration is to make your crushing operation a mobile setup. There's 2 companies around here that crush concrete at their own pits but are for hire and travel to other contractor's broken concrete yards and crush on site. If there's a large quantity of concrete to be recycled on some of our urban redevelopment projects, they move in crush the material and the GC then uses some if needed and sells the rest. A third company just crushes recycled asphalt for the asphalt plants
     
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  16. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    Msha doesnt regulate concrete recycling only osha now the epa has a field day with dust requirements especially in a desert a place full of dust and you cant have any dust

    I sat down with the state msha inspector to figure out where the line was msha claims they wont regulate crushing of recycling and if your on a job and crush rock to use on the job from the site and you dont export said material it's not under msha

    The margins are pretty good a 3 local grading companies all have crushing yards none of them are an actual inert landfill one them 2 of them are getting a premium cause of there location i know the owner of one pretty decent they make better money off of crushing recycle and a pad material stock pile than they do grading

    So to me it's a huge but to crack but it's one of those that devolpes synergy with your buissness it could even be a nessicary evil to be competitive like having a dump.sight you can control is kinda a pain but you can rule the surrounding area
     
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  17. jmac

    jmac Senior Member

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    The hammer is a Kent. Had to go look. I bought it used with the excavator. I think I was told it’s is a 9000lb does that sound correct? It hits very hard, no problem with concrete 24” thick.
     
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  18. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Without a doubt RDD, the way I see it tracked versions for both crushers and screens are the only way to go since we also do site demo on a regular basis. Having the option of mob'ing in a crusher on a larger demo job changes the volume of debris to haul off whether it's used on site or not. Crushing for 3rd parties would be another revenue stream as well.

    That's the way I see the MSHA angle as well AZ. As far as dust we get about 5' of rain a year so we're fighting mud more often than dust. :D



    Jmac 9000LB is a big hammer. What size excavator is it on? The one we just got is 4500lb.
     
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  19. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

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    I doubt that it's a 9k# hammer. If I recall your carrier is a CAT 320B and that size machine (+/- 50k#) would be better suited to a 4,000# hammer. A 9k or 10k# hammer would be a better match for a 45 metric tn machine (like say a CAT 345) instead of a 20 metric tn machine (like your CAT 320).
     
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  20. jmac

    jmac Senior Member

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    That makes sense. It is on a 320B, so what ever size it is it has worked well so far. I will see if I can find any numbers on it. We have a small one for our mini so maybe that’s a 900lb hammer.
     
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