955 cat fluid change

[fest777]

is there any way too change trans fluid without dropping belly pan ?

 

[Welder Dave]

Look to see if there is a removable cover or a hole in the belly pan for the drain plug. I think there might be a cover to remove but you don't say which model of 955.

 

[Cat977]

I believe you share the sump with wet clutches. They would probably have a drain plug to each side of the transmission at their low points.

 

[fest777]

my bad 955l 85j07794 only 1 window for steering clutches, can not see another hole

 

[Cat977]

I'm curious as to why you want to change the oil? But that's your business. I am going from what the 977's have but yours are probably similar. You should get a Operation& Maintenance Manual, a thin booklet it would be nice to get an original used one off ebay. The pictures are much clearer, but the reprints are better than nothing. Cost? maybe $25. A Lot of oil in there, 30 gallons give or take in a 977K. So let's get the screens and filters too. To get the transmission pickup screen out. Drain oil and remove the small bottom cover, you'll find a screen inside the cover. Wash with solvent. The clutch drains should be in front of the final drives. The paper filter is probably under the floorboard in the front of the steering petals in a round housing. You really! really! need! to pull the magnetic screen! A small floor plate to the left in front of the seat. Yours may be different. Wash with solvent.
Best of Luck

 

[Nige]

Seconded on the O&M Manual recommendation. Cat Publication reference for your machine is SEBU6520 or GEG00983.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-Caterp...ADER-GUIDE-BOOK-85J-71J-57J-64J-/373453970282

Looking at the photos in said manual the transmission drain plug is shown in the process of being removed with the belly guard already dropped. So the implication is that the guard has to come down first in order to get at the drain plug.

 

[AllDodge]

Mine has a cover on the belly pan and is easy enough to remove to change, also a 85J

 

[fest777]

I'm curious as to why you want to change the oil? But that's your business. I am going from what the 977's have but yours are probably similar. You should get a Operation& Maintenance Manual, a thin booklet it would be nice to get an original used one off ebay. The pictures are much clearer, but the reprints are better than nothing. Cost? maybe $25. A Lot of oil in there, 30 gallons give or take in a 977K. So let's get the screens and filters too. To get the transmission pickup screen out. Drain oil and remove the small bottom cover, you'll find a screen inside the cover. Wash with solvent. The clutch drains should be in front of the final drives. The paper filter is probably under the floorboard in the front of the steering petals in a round housing. You really! really! need! to pull the magnetic screen! A small floor plate to the left in front of the seat. Yours may be different. Wash with solvent.
Best of Luck

the main reason the oil is not correct, i want too put to-4 30wt in, also under heavy dozing i can hear a whine, its loud but no too loud, dose not whine when grading, i got all the books on this machine, did all the filters before this job. what about putting a hose down the filler tube and pumping the oil out from there ?, oil is very clean its was leaking for years so it was always getting fresh oil be at maybe not the right type, is there an additive i can ad to it , trans holds 10 gal according too cat. i hope its not the finals i am hearing thanks all

 

[Cat977]

With the oil you want the type that works properly with wet clutches and brakes. That's what the TO-4 straight weight oil is about. The multi viscosity engine might be a problem. Straight 30W engine oil might be ok. Have you cleaned the screens? A lot of metal in the magnetic screen could signal trouble. Junk in the pickup screen could be starving the pump. Draining the last of the oil from the bottom of the clutches could show if they're coming apart. I would think a whine would be more like a bearing in the transmission than the final drive (just an opinion). A bearing might whine for quite awhile but at some point after you are checking for metal in the magnetic screen or the whine gets louder you will need to stop running it and fix it before you have bigger problems problems . A additive or thicker oil may cover you for awhile and then it may also cause you other problems. The 977K final drive takes TO-4 50W. You might want to see if there's metal in there.
Best of Luck

 

[Cat977]

fest777 I bet your out on a job and want to something to tide you over to get it done. I don't know how far you can get a hose down to pull the oil out. If it was "me" and you can get out a few gallons, maybe 1/2 of the tank it "maybe ok" to put in some TO-4 50W in since you are in the Californian heat. If it was the same brand and type oil TO-4 say 30W I would feel more comfortable, but "I" would do it for a short time. I would not do it here in Wisconsin's Polar Vortex. But I would run my machines in the sever cold if I really wanted to. I would let it idle for 30-40 minutes.

""But if the clutch's started slipping I would change it all out, call a service guy, or take it home"".

Just wanted to add another thought on oil. Oil floats on top of water most of the time. Some can be entrained/captured in the oil. The amount varies by the type of oil, how much you use the machine, and what the weather is like. At any rate water and heavy contaminates will tend to settle out at the lowest spot, that's where the drain plug should be. That's why you should drain all the low points, and do it hot or warm. That will carry the most crap out. Also don't think the oil is being refreshed by topping off the oil level. That dilutes the contaminated oil and doesn't do anything about the water that may still be in the oil, or underneath it. Its true if you use your machine frequently enough and bring it up to operating temperature for several hours you should cook the water out.

 

[fest777]

cat777, thank you , there is no slippage , it had a terrible leak for a long time , was filling trans after 5 hours with a couple gallons, i prolly went threw 60 gallons over one summer, this was a while back. oil was free from the guy i was working for, its was from a large tank for oil changes and i don not believe it was correct oil i think it was a 30 wt engine oil. this may be the reason for the low freq whine iam hearing, and yes i have a least another 10 to 15 hours of rock and sand work in the mojave desert. lucky for me its winter now and in the 60's to 70's but in the summer its unbearable 110 to 120 in the day barstow ca, i got a new rad core so cooling is fine so far i will run 2 to 3 hours then take a break most i have run was 4 hrs straight and machine did fine . i know its a old machine, i have just about rebuilt this 955 over the last year all hydraulics repacked, new hoses on lift cyl's, resealed pump gov housing, 4 pc chambers, 4 inj valves, all new hyd fluid, rebuilt alt, 24v starter, 4 grp 31 batteries, flushed and cleaned fuel tank, new pucks on flywheel , steering pedal adjustments , 2 new gauges it just goes on it had been sitting for a long time almost 15 years,

 

[Cat977]

I'm proud to hear of someone in America who can go out in that heat without an air conditioned cab and make a living! Good for you fest777! You also brought a worthy machine back to life, and are putting it to work! That takes a lot of determination! Back in the power plant there were some places around 130 F in the summer and if there was a breakdown it was ya get in and fix it. At that temp. a fan just makes it worse. At least I wouldn't have the sun on me. Also no one gave me a problem on how long it took. Just that it got done. Now I just call a workers strike below 15 F and over 80 F lol. I'm a lucky guy.

Any way engine oil that meets the CD/TO-2 or CD/TO-4 spec. 30W at above 32 F is what's called for. Above 32 F you can put the same oil in the trans and the engine. I put 15W40 in my engines. That's not what's called for but "I think" it’s a better choice in this crazy Wisconsin weather . I don't do much in the winter anyway and I try to take it easy when I first get going in summer and winter. If the clutches are not slipping in your machine, and it was 30W oil. You're probably ok. "I don't think" that is the cause of the whine. The thing that worries me would be if the oil was say 10W. I'm pretty sure the new hydrostatic machines use TO-4 10W and if that was what was going in your transmission, not so good. Before you start up the machine and pull out the dipsticks on the engine and transmission and compare how fast they drip and how slippery they feel between your fingers . They should feel and drip about the same. Pull out the magnetic screen if there is a continuing buildup of metal something is starting to come apart. Buy some oil testing kits from Cat about $12-13 each they give me a 10 pack for $10 each. The little hand pump about $26 lasts like forever. The little bottles (3 oz.) each come with a skinny tube that goes down the dipstick tube. Drop them at Cat or mail then in. Then you’ll know what little bits of metal (be it steel, cast iron, brass, ect. and dirt) are floating around and how much of it. Do it at the end of the day so everything is mixed up good. You probably won’t even get your hands Dirty.
Best of Luck

 

[Cat977]

fest777 I'll share a story. Hopefully it's not boring. I worked for UW Madison for 28 years and started out as an Instrument Maker in the Physical plant. I worked on thing all over campus. We had a complete machine shop. I created things to fill people's needs or dreams. I repaired things I had totally no experience in. It was a great job! We also had 2 guys that were stationed at with the power plants. The facilities had 7 large steam boilers, four of them coal, 2 electrical generators 15,000 Hp.. 5 large air compressors, 7 steam driven drive air conditioning Freon compressors, amounting up to 24,000 Hp.. 3 large pumps that sent water from the lake to the plant. Staff and students about 60,000. We heated, cooled, supplied compress air to all the building through tunnels throughout campus including UW hospital. The main plant was bought from the Hudson motor company, disassembled and moved here. AN Instrument maker and a mechnition were stationed there from the Physical plant. Maybe more later.

 

[Cat977]

Oh yes Da confession. Going by spec Is a very good thing to do. Going by application is up to the owner of the machine. When doing an engine break or in warranty definitely go by spec. Now I use Mobil Delvac 1300 15W40 $54 in the engines and Mobilfuild 424 $44.50 and Mobilfuid LT $108 in some other applications. I use Phillips powerdrive P66 TO-4 for hydraulic 10W $41, tranz 30W, $49, finals 50W $52, they are spec. I use Phillips products because they have at a lot better price point than Mobil products. These are farm co-op prices. I get free shipping when I buy at least 55 gallons of the same brand 55 gallon drum, or like me 11, 5 gallon buckets. Back in the 60s and 70s I don’t believe there was a really good diesel multi viscosity engine oil. The Power Plants used Mobil oil almost exclusively and I had some Mobil technical support contacts there, and I did a lot of research in oil. Arriving at my decision to use the Mobil 1300 in my engines, because of the synthetic blend and additives to get a longer lasting oil with better hot and cold performance. The new engines are being pushed to higher HP with the same cubic inch displacements. The modern oils were created to meet the higher demands. The specs from places like Cat caused the oil producers into products like Mobil’s 1300. In what I’ve seen in my life, good clean oil of the best types is the best investment you can make on any machine.

Oh yah hey finished installing the power plant in 1958. It's mostly true they don’t build em like they used to. Over time they didn't usually replace machines there, they rebuilt them, over, and over, and over. Kinda like some of the old machines some of us run around in. I Loved my 6 years up at the Physical Plant. Maybe more later.

 

[fest777]

can you tell me what is a instrument maker , i never heard of the term before, first thought was you made instruments. by what your describing its more ,much more. in the 10th grade i worked at my school as a janitor in the summer, there is way more than just being a janitor.

 

[Cat977]

Nice to hear from you fest777. About me, just a lucky guy that had a few good breaks. Went to technical college 3 years full time 4 years half time. Built papermill equipment for Beloit corporation, on they're drive floor, was an inspector for Warner Electric Brake and Clutch, built test stands for Nelson Muffler and Filter Research. Was lucky enough to land the Instrument Makers job. All I can say is I’m grateful. The journey I had in life was, what I learned along the way was a ticket into something new to learn about. There’s men on this forum that ran the loaders, Dozers, ect., or fixed them for a living. They have the experience to know what is going on when you have a breakdown, or need help trying to rebuild something. I just worked on a lot of different machines. What was it that caused you to revive the 955L? I'd love to hear that story. Well, I dug out the Instrument Maker position description fest777. Sure doesn't mean I’m any better than my fellow man!
Position Summary
Under general supervision perform as a highly skilled machinist in the design and creation of unique, highly intricate, and precise scientific equipment. Fabricate and modify specialized laboratory equipment utilizing knowledge of materials, methods, and machine tools to fabricate the required item. Maintain and repair equipment and mechanical systems for Physical Plant, University Departments including diagnosing, and repairing or manufacturing new parts.
Fabrication and modification of specialized laboratory equipment.
Expertly use all shop machines and tooling to fabricate parts.
Assist researchers and students in designing specialized lab equipment. Modify existing lab equipment to perform functions other than the original design. Work assignments may begin with drawings, sketches or very often only verbal instruction given by a professor, student, or engineer.
Fabricate parts for obsolete master timing systems for campus clocks, bells, and Radio Hall.
Repair and modify photography equipment such as lens adapters, extensions and remote controls not available from manufacturers. Modify film developing equipment to suit the user functions and demands.
Select proper materials best suited for the functions of the equipment. Materials may include stainless steel, plastics, glass, aluminum, brass, spring wire and steel, tool steel, etc.
Fabricate jigs and fixtures to hold special parts for forming or machining.
Maintenance and repair of equipment and mechanical systems for Physical Plant and other University departments.
Diagnose the reasons for mechanical failures and recommend suitable repair or modifications.
Manufacture new parts to replace broken or worn parts in emergency cases and when not available. Replace new parts when available.
Repair compressors, gear reducers, conveyors.
Repair pumps of all kinds such as vacuum, sump, split case, vertical, fire, water, and sewer ejectors. This requires the making and fitting at very close tolerances of shafts, bearings, seals rotary seals, impellers, gaskets, etc.
Repair of elevator in general including cable replacements, bearings and shafts, safety equipment and hydraulic pumps. Drop test in accordance with safety and state codes.
Repair, replace or upgrade electric motors adapting ball bearings in place of sleeve bearings. Sleeve bearings are also made and fitted when needed.
Repair steam turbines, electric generators, boilers, coal handling equipment, water treatment systems, pumps and other related equipment at both heating stations or campus buildings.
Repair of overhead doors, silo unloaders and barn cleaners. B8.1. Fabricate and install shafts and bearings. B8.2. Replace springs, cables and broken panels.
Repair and fabrication of parts for a variety of equipment used by Physical Plant. B9.1 Carpenter Shop - Table saws, thickness planers, routers, jointers, and band saws. Sharpen handsaws, table and radial arm saw blades, planer blades, router blades, molding cutters, and drills. B9.2 Sheetmetal Shop - Repair and change blades on hydraulic metal shears. Repair metal brakes, lock formers, nibblers and pneumatic or electric grinders and hand tools. B9.3. Paint Shop - Repair paint sprayers, line strippers, sewing machines, and engraving equipment. B9.4. Machine Shop - Repair and maintenance of lathes, mills, drill presses, band saws, grinders, and other miscellaneous equipment. Grind drills and set up special tools, milling cutters, and drills for shop use. B9.5. Plumbers, steamfitters and electricians - Repair pipe threaders and dies, hydraulic jacks and tubing benders, core drills, etc. B9.6. Grounds - Disassemble, repair and maintain power brooms, lawn mowers, snow plows, thatchers, aerators, air hammers, hedge trimmers, weed eaters, etc. Sharpen and repair gang mowers. B9.7 Service Garage - Make and repair parts for large vehicles.
Repair fans, gear reducers, air conditioning, and other related equipment.
Advanced knowledge of characteristics and properties of materials worked with such as hardness, strength and durability of metals, alloys, etc.
Knowledge of machine and mechanism design, and ability to apply such knowledge and personal ingenuity to solve difficult problems in making repairs and new parts.

 

[donlang]

I guess the short definition would be “jack of all trades”.

 

[fest777]

wow that job takes alot of brains . little over a year ago before the pandemic, around 9/2019 my landlord sold the property i was on for 16 years, its was a small yard for my truck and trailer and all my tools , i had a lot for old things to get rid of quick, i kept my 2 lathes, 3 milling machines,and surface grinder was all put in storage, the 955 i had for over 25 years ,it sat the last 16 years, was going too sell it but the best offer i got was $2,000, for a machine that runs and drives i think is worth more so i kept it, but i had to move it to a place in willmington ca for storage . so i decided to start resealing every cylinder and basically rebuild the machine, it took almost a year too do, its really a good machine , i did tons of work with it from 1996 to 2001 it was a really abused machine,former owner used it in building demolition, former owner walked away from it because he could not get it started, burned starter up trying to start, so my landlord let me try and get it going, the fuel collar was stuck in bypass position, that's all it took to get started, just pulled side cover on pump and advanced collar and fired right up, head gasket was leaking like a siv, so i put a few bucks into it, had most of the parts already, that's about the story how i got the machine , oh don't let me forget it was going to be paper clips but i saved it instead, that was in around 1995 or 1996 cant remember it was so long ago

 

[Cat977]

Hey Fest777 were you running a job shop out of your old place? Kind of like my old job but on wheels? It sucks you had to move after all that time. How is that whine doing on the 955L? How long ago did you change the oil in the final drives. You might want to eliminate any trouble there first. I use an oval steel tank to drain mine, you may get by with a 55 gallon drum. I cut the top off so I could use the vent cap to drain the oil out of what now would be a drain pan. Cut most of it to clear the belly pan but left a triangle sticking up on one side. I used a torch to help bend that triangle out to go under the drain plug of the final drive. Of coarse use a magnet to look for metal. Did you have 3phase on your old place? I’ve got some old 3phase machines that I plan to hookup with a Phase Perfect digital 3phase generator. 220 single phase to 220 3phase.
Anyhow at the Power Plant they promoted the helper to instrument Maker and hired a new helper. That was a pure disaster. The helper was no Instrument Maker and the new helper had bull shitted his way into the job. Maybe more later.

 

[fest777]

no, the shop was for my trucking operation, i ran a 18 wheeler for close too 33 years, after 2008 it went down hill and it got so bad i stopped around 2011. there was 3ph at my last location , sure miss it was very handy, vfd is the way too go for single to three phase step up, there are some really cost effective units available depending on hp requirements say for a 5hp 3ph a vfd @ about $300 is avail. but i do like the rotary phase converters also simple too build with just a old 3ph elect. motor. getting the old oil out of the trans is a real bugger without dropping the skid plate. man that ain't fun messing with that heavy mofo . whinning ain't too bad the last day i worked it but was not working too hard just pulling a 20' wide concrete pillar too level the sand and base