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753 Chain Case Overfull

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by KyDirt, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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    Bobcat 753 C Series Machine. Close friend passed away recently and left me his 1994 753 bobcat. Going through the machine to do routine service. Removed the chain case CHECK PLUG and 12 gallons of excess oil puked out before it drained down to the proper fill level. I would guess this ends up with me pulling the side access covers and groping around blindly for a drive motor leak issues. Don't have any experience with drive motor issues and would greatly appreciate some in sight into what I should be looking for in the belly of this beast. Would also like to know a few of the the most common sources for leaks resulting in chain case overfill? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Willie59, I would be particularly grateful for your input here.
     
  2. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    only one thing causes the chaincase to overfill...

    gearbox seals.

    you'll have to remove the drive motors to get to the seals.

    you'll definitely need your SN for that machine

    do both sides while you're in there.


    :drinkup
     
  3. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Welcome to HEF KyDirt. :drinkup

    Yes, that's typically caused by either a failed bearing carrier seal (drive motor mounting) or by a failed drive motor that has put hydraulic pressure on the carrier seal and blown it out. In most cases, but not all, when a drive motor craps out it will produce metal debris along with excessive case drain pressure, that pressure is what will blow a carrier seal. But at the same time it will send that metal debris to the case drain filter. I would start by removing, disassemble, and inspecting the case drain filter looking for debris. If they're clean, probably just a failed carrier seal. If you has debris in it, that will tell you which drive motor is bad.
     
  4. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Ha, crewchief beat me to a response. :D
     
  5. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    ya gotta be quick !!:notworthy

    i'd be willing to bet it has the original gearbox seals in it.

    our shop had a run on them last year, one every 7-10 days, starting in the spring through early fall..

    were seeing a LOT of 25-35 year old machines coming out of the woodwork....
    sadly many of the "proud new owners" dont have the money to shell out for repairs

    :drinkup
     
  6. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Yep, likely has a leaky control valve as well. :yup
     
  7. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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    Crew & Willie thanks for the quick response. I didn't see the case drain filters anywhere under the cab when I was nosing around earlier today looking for them. Only a single in-line filter hanging off the hydro reservoir. I don't have a shop manual for this machine. Anybody know where the chain case filters are located? Possible related issue; pull back slowly on the left steering lever at low idle and machine doesn't move. slightly move the right steering lever at the same time and the left side will suddenly engage and lunge in the direction of travel. Can't tell there's an issue at mid throttle going straight forward or backward but start make turns and you can tell the left side is erratic in response. If your used to a bobcat it's an insufferable issue when trying to make fine adjustments while steering. Do these symptoms present like a drive motor issue?
     
  8. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    First, I don't have a manual for a 753 C series so I don't know how they arranged the case drain filters. Some of the older C series machines only had one case drain filter at the hydraulic reservoir, later models had a case drain filter at each drive motor. To make it simple, each drive motor has three hose connections to it; 2 larger hose connections for drive, and one smaller hose connection, that would be the case drain for that motor. Follow that smaller hose backward as it returns to tank, if there's a case drain filter you'll find it inline between that motor and the tank. It will be a cylindrical aluminum housing with a large hex one one end.

    Second, to say your symptoms sound like a drive motor issue, well, yes, the left side does sound suspect, but without being there in the seat it's still hard for me to say, could still be a problem with a pintle arm connection to the pump control shaft on the left side, but does sound like a possible drive motor issue. See if you can find the case drain filter for the left drive motor and confirm.
     
  9. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    if it does have case drains for each motor they will be close to the motor in the case drain hose.

    i recall some models they were screwed directly onto the fittings in the motor.

    from what you describe it sounds like you have a drive motor going out.

    some early drive motors are NLA from bobcat, not sure about parts availability either :beatsme

    a word of warning,
    if you have to replace a drive motor, you will likely have a machine that does not track straight, due to the other motor having wear, and not being efficent enough to keep up with the new motor.

    if you have the type of motor that is NLA it's recommended that they be replaced in pairs.


    :drinkup
     
  10. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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    Dealer says motor is NLA. They may be able to get a used one. I think I can work my way through putting a seal kit in on my own if that's the only problem. If the damage is more extensive, can it be sent off and remanufactured cost effectively? I understand this is a lot of hypotheticals considering I havnt even checked the filter yet. Just trying decide at what point I disable my only peice of loader equipment. If a repair costs me more than $500.00 I'll need to continue running it until I can generate enough cash to cover the parts.
     
  11. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    i'd be willing to bet that a motor seal kit, fitting orings, and gearbox seals would be less than your $500 limit if you are doing all the work.

    i think what i'd do is drain the chaincase down to level, top off your hyd oil and run it for a while. then recheck your chaincase & hyd levels to see how much oil is leaking.
    thats typically what we do for an older machine, and a customer with a very limited budget.

    that amount of oil could be from YEARS of not checking, and reilling the hyd tank, or a little as a few hours of run time, depending on how bad the seals are.

    :drinkup
     
  12. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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    That sounds like a solid plan. I think I'll take that advise and run with it. Thanks for the input and direction.
     
  13. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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    Checked case drain filter and found no metal or unusual contamination. Filter was in severe need of replacement. After running the machine now for about 16 hrs the fluid doesn't seem to be hemorrhaging into the chain case unusually quick. (thanks crewchief888) it must have been long term accumulation. Now that I have a better feel for the machine I have noticed some particulars to my problem. The unresponsiveness of the left drive motor drastically increases the longer the machine is operated. The problem is sufferable for about an hour and then after that the motor will engage and fade, engage and fade, as I back up. It jerks every time it engages. The problem seems to be much more drastic in reverse. I don't seem to notice as much going forward. If you pull back equally on both steering levers after its run for an hour or so, the machine would eventually back in a complete circle if you had about a 200ft radius, with the left motor engaging and slacking off the entire time. The problem gets so debilitating I seldom run the machine for more than a couple hours at a time. Does the increase in severity after an hour use and the noticeable difference in reverse as opposed to forward narrow down the possibilities for what might be the root cause of this issue?
     
  14. BobCatBob

    BobCatBob Senior Member

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    I have a 753C and had exactly the same problem/symptoms on the left side ( would steer to the left, pull back straight with a little more power, but not equal....and would jerk forward every now and then when left drive motor engaged). I ended up buying a rebuilt drive motor ( with core exchange). It was a pretty straight forward repair.
     
  15. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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    These motors are one of the few that can eat seals without blowing up, we have re-sealed many many of these that showed no metal wear, the blown seals can allow "bypassing" which sounds an awful lot like what you describe. It can do this without necessarily leaking oil into the chaincase. When bypassing, the oil goes through the motor without turning it, lots of travel lever - more flow, and she takes off with a jerk?
     
  16. BobCatBob

    BobCatBob Senior Member

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    Exactly.
     
  17. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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    Got one motor out of the machine and onto the bench tonight. Shaft flops around in the housing. I can easily spin it by hand and it has almost an inch of free travel when pulled in and out of the housing. Is this a hopeless chunk of scrap metal?
     
  18. apetad

    apetad Senior Member

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    Yes
     
  19. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    i'm having a brain fart...


    can you post a pic of the motor?


    :drinkup
     
  20. KyDirt

    KyDirt Member

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