75/25 or 90/10 for welding loader arm?

[Welder Dave]

Here's the rest of the link regarding flux-core wires. T-9 has better low impact properties than T-1 .

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-...-theory/Pages/fcaw-usability-designators.aspx

 

[StanRUS]

Millermatic 210 Ph1 230V 60% duty cycle @ 160 amps.
REF: https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/o1325a_mil.pdf
Using 71M 0.035" WS 400 inches per minute, Voltage 24-27, approximate 160amps.
REF: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/global/Products/Consumable_Flux-CoredWires-Gas-Shielded-Outershield-Outershield71M/c3101.pdf

Straight CO2 would help keep the mig gun cooler increasing the gun's duty cycle (all mig gun rated duty cycles are for CO2). Pre-heat and maintaining interpass temp? Mite have throw a bit extra heat @ the welds with a heating torch. Large steel area will suck the heat out of the weld joints quickly.

Small diameter flux-core wires 0.035" or under are priced higher targeting body shops and home hobbyist. Maybe more economical to stick with solid mig wire, even 0.030" and keep the volts up higher to prevent cold laps.

 

[Steve Bowman]

Thanks again.

I have always thought the duty cycle was mostly determined by the windings of the welder moreso than the gun. I have had the welder go into temporary shutdown before, but never had an issue with the gun. How would the co2 run cooler? It would make the weld itself hotter, no?

Propane weed burner and ceramic blanket for preheat.

Not sure I'm following you on the. 030 solid. I was actually considering getting a set of .045 rollers(and wire) since I will be making a special trip anyway. Depends on where the value sweet spot is. Might even pick up some co2, rather than the 90/10 i asked about initially.

I do have plans in fabricating a quick attach adapter after I finish the boom. So might even just get 33lbs.

 

[StanRUS]

I have always thought the duty cycle was mostly determined by the windings of the welder moreso than the gun. I have had the welder go into temporary shutdown before, but never had an issue with the gun. How would the co2 run cooler? It would make the weld itself hotter, no?

Mig gun duty cycle is separate from welder's duty cycle. Mig gun duty cycle affects overheating of the mig contact tip; overheating causes wire-to-tip sticking and shortened tip life. CO2 is a cooling gas, that is why mig guns run cooler using CO2. Were looking at mig contact tip and gun's electrical current conductor > goose neck.

CO2 well produce a bit hotter weld puddle with less fluid puddle wash-in (ropey weld bead) compared to 25/75% and doesn't weld out of position as good.

Per Miller's spec's 210 Millermatic's sweet spot is 160amps @ 60% duty cycle. So I would choose a wire that runs close to the sweet spot with bit of reserve capacity.

 

[Welder Dave]

This is for Bernard guns but shows higher amp ratings at 100% duty cycle using CO2. If I recall a lot of guns are only rated at 60% with mixed gas but the 100% duty cycle sounds better. Turning your machine up 20-25 amps could work if you keep the piece warm with a torch and aren't piling the beads on one after another. Especially if you're welding on one side then the other and wire brushing and grinding between passes. I think I'd be tempted to try the 71M wire because it has better penetration than solid wire and is less prone to cold lap or lack of fusion at the edges. It can sometimes get porosity for no apparent reason but if that happened you'd want to grind it out anyway.

https://www.bernardwelds.com/files/SpSh_Q_Gun_2_3_4.pdf

 

[StanRUS]

I think I'd be tempted to try the 71M wire because it has better penetration than solid wire and is less prone to cold lap or lack of fusion at the edges. It can sometimes get porosity for no apparent reason but if that happened you'd want to grind it out anyway.

I think 71M would be Steve's best choice.

Dave, porosity using 71M? Can be trapped shielding gas from a bit to high of flow rate, bit too long of distance from the work > CTW

Couple Mig Gun ratings
Lincoln Mag Pro 550 page 3 gives a visual chart. I purchase a new one last Dec off Ebay @ $600.00 saving to run 1/8" wires.
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...nsandTorches-MagnumPro-MagnumPRO550/e1201.pdf

Bernard (ITW owned like Miller)
Scroll down a bit for Ratings
https://www.bernardwelds.com/best-of-the-best-platform-p156229

NS-3M 1/8" Innershield @ 525amps with forced air cooled DIY mig gun modifications. @ 600amps weld deposition is 39.5lbs per hr. Example of non-impact rated wire used for extreme impact applications. Recommended by the grouse bar steel manufactures for welding on grousers. Those grouse bar are from
https://www.manganal.com/index-2.html customer purchased. My buddy's 2nd grouser job. He was leaving a 1/8" gap for full penetration weld; weld cracking when the puddle cooled....Wrong welding procedures...start over deal. His 1st grouser job was with Dura-Bar, he could get by using the wrong procedure. MY POINT, when welds start having problems, STOP. Call someone who can help, search internet whatever.
LONG WIRE stick out 2 3/4 or 3 3/4": required to heat the flux inside; sort of like inside out stick rod. Stick rods' amp limitation is the flux. Over-amped the flux falls off.
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...lded-Innershield-InnershieldNS-3M/c320002.pdf

 

[Steve Bowman]

View attachment 190803

What is the smaller wire alligator clip on the final drive? Plasma?
Hard to tell, but he was grounded at the pad he was welding, right? Looks like I see two welding leads going above him plus the mig gun.

And regarding the cooling, is it due to the different molecular weight/properties between argon and the co2? Could I assume straight co2 is roughly 25% better at cooling than 75/25?



Also, regarding the adjustments on my welder. Wire speed is only listed 1-100. Maybe i should do an actual test and measure the inches/minute, but i wish the manual gave a chart for inches or amps. Same thing on the 1-7 voltage switch. Maybe i can find something on the web


Found a partial picture.

The DC voltage depends on which of the 7 voltage settings are selected, and the maximum is 34.5 volts. At 60% duty cycle or 24.5 VDC, its output is 160 amperes, and its output range is from 30 to 210 amperes. Wire feed speed is from 35 to 700 inches per minute, again depending on the chosen setting.

 

[Steve Bowman]

Based on that info I found, and a little math, this might get us close...

Amps Inches Dial
30 35 10
42 140 20
63 210 30
84 280 40
105 350 50
126 420 60
147 490 70
168 560 80
189 630 90
210 700 100

So 160 amps is roughly 500 in/min and 80 on the dial. Not sure about the voltage, as I am not sure what the output is at setting 1 yet.

But...
From Stan's post of Lincoln information.

Using 71M 0.035" WS 400 inches per minute, Voltage 24-27, approximate 160amps.

Until I double check my welder, 400 in/min = around 120 amps according to my matchbook math. Or, 160 amps = about 500 inches/minute.

So, at 400 inches, i may be under the recomended amps, and at 160 amps, i would be running more in/min.

I know this is all subject to change once u start welding, but this is the 1st time i have tried to correlate my dials to actual numbers and mfg recomendations.

 

[StanRUS]

What is the smaller wire alligator clip on the final drive? Plasma?
Hard to tell, but he was grounded at the pad he was welding, right? Looks like I see two welding leads going above him plus the mig gun.

No he was not grounded on the pad he was welding. Everyone on this forum will jump up and down, ' ruin the track seals, finals bearings etc'. That didn't occur. He ran a small bead to join each link. When you rotate the track the bead breaks. I don't like that, adds a extra step and you can use the Bessey Ground Clamp to clamp down one end of the grouser bar on each pad.

Grouser Bar Welding per instructions: Use a 1/16th inch soft wire (clean mechanic's wire) between the grouser bar and pad that allows weld shrinkage to prevent cracks. Try to avoid weld puddle admixture; i.e. don't manipulate the wire trying wash in the two different steels.

As I stated #46, my buddy was doing everything wrong, in fact totally opposite from recommended procedure. His 1st grouser job using Dura-Bar, he was using 71M for a root pass, then 3/32" NR-202 or something for 2nd-3rd finishing passes. In the Mojave desert @ 120 deg, not enjoying the job.

I know good welders with stick, tig and easy to use innershield wires who cannot use NR-232 because they don't read the procedure instructions. Point out the problem; 'I don't weld that way, you can have the crap wire'.

Bessey Clamp with 1/2" bolt weld on for a threaded lug. Double 2/0 ground cables, hooked directly to a Miller 500 Airpack's output terminals. For NS-3M reverse polarity; negative is the grounding circuit.

Small wire with alligator clamp is the wire feeder's voltage sensing circuit. ALL voltage measurements are work-to-wire feeder's output lug. Most accurate measurement using a multimeter.

Wire Speed per Minute: feed for 15 seconds, measure the length X 4 = IPM

OEM engineers, field rep's teach that exact procedure to set up wire feeders and welders. Older feeders did not have voltage or wire speed gauges; gauges were optional add-ons.

Millermatic 210; set to 5-6-7 whatever, measure wire speed and then measure actual voltage between the work and output terminal using a multimeter to accurately set voltage.

Cat manufacturing (and repair-rebuild) tolerance: 2 bores in alignment +/- 0.002" Buckets, Hitches, Loader Arms, Tractor Frames, Haul Truck Frames etc.

For the line boring experts: HEF member's set up, do you see anything unusual?

 

[Welder Dave]

Dave, porosity using 71M? Can be trapped shielding gas from a bit to high of flow rate, bit too long of distance from the work > CTW

Stan I wasn't referring specifically to 71M. Years ago when I first ran Dual Shield it seemed for no apparent reason you would get porosity in the weld. It wasn't just me. Another welder threw the Mig gun across shop because he had done 3 perfect welds on gussets for a flare stack base and on the 4th one had porosity. It was a royal pain because the base on these was only about 10" and the welds had to ground out with a die grinder. I think that's one of the reasons I prefer stick for critical welds I don't want to mess up. I used to have a Miller Trailblazer 55D (400 amp CC/CV) and ran some 3/32" NS3M. Could go through a 50lb. spool in under 2 1/2 hours. When it worked right looked like sub-arc. I read a report concerning it cracking and learned it had aluminum in it and that is what gave it such high deposition rates but not the best material to have in steel weld. Tried a little NR232 when Lincoln used to have a demo room and it has a definite learning curve.

 

[Welder Dave]

What is the smaller wire alligator clip on the final drive? Plasma?
Hard to tell, but he was grounded at the pad he was welding, right? Looks like I see two welding leads going above him plus the mig gun.

And regarding the cooling, is it due to the different molecular weight/properties between argon and the co2? Could I assume straight co2 is roughly 25% better at cooling than 75/25?



Also, regarding the adjustments on my welder. Wire speed is only listed 1-100. Maybe i should do an actual test and measure the inches/minute, but i wish the manual gave a chart for inches or amps. Same thing on the 1-7 voltage switch. Maybe i can find something on the web


Found a partial picture.

Steve, you need to stop trying to reverse engineer everything and just the accept information given. Straight CO2 is a liquid form in the cylinder. Try picking up a 50lb CO2 cylinder compared to a similar size 244 argon/CO2 cylinder. The mix gas is in a gas state. CO2 often needs a heater to keep the regulator from freezing from drawing the gas off. Very similar to the way propane tanks work.

For wire feed speed do as Stan said and run the wire for 15 seconds and see how many inches and multiply by 4. Don't try to figure it out on the dial. Lincoln puts wire feed speed on some of their feeders. I bought a high end volt meter with a separate lead and mounted it on my wire feeder to make it a little easier to set for flux-core wires. A lot of wires list volts and amps so having the volts close makes it easier to get the wire speed (amps) correct.

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

Steve, you need to stop trying to reverse engineer everything and just accept information given.

This is mirroring the generator thread he started...

 

[Welder Dave]

This is mirroring the generator thread he started...

Worse, the thread started by another Steve....

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

Worse, the thread started by another Steve....

Same dude.
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/what-engine-is-this-olympian-genset.74272/

 

[Welder Dave]

Close but the D6C loss of oil pressure thread went on over a year. Glad he got his machine back running properly though with a lot of help from this forum. The dealer &^%$#! up and tried to get him to pay them to keep his machine. Cat field service techs got involved.

 

[Steve Bowman]

This is mirroring the generator thread he started...

Buddy, I just want to understand it better. Not just blindly follow instructions.

Sorry.

I am glad for the help. But I do sometimes do things the hard way. Lol

It's a lot more trouble than I anticipated, but i am following the advice. Ended up finding a new roll of lincoln 71m on ebay, after two real welding supply houses said they did not have it. Only e71t-11

That will give me time to rig up the 5lb co2 cyl i forgot I had. Not sure how long it will last, but it's just sitting here otherwise.
For what it's worth , the guy at airgas did say that it would weld better with 75/25. But they do not carry smaller tanks of co2, and wouldn't exchange my 75/15 empty.

 

[StanRUS]

I read a report concerning it cracking and learned it had aluminum in it and that is what gave it such high deposition rates but not the best material to have in steel weld.

Every time I order NS-3M, the welding engineer goes on a rant about lack of impact rating. Norhtridge quake downed bridges were welded with NS-3M using narrow gap method. Lincoln's chief engineer used politics with a$$ kissing to keep Lincoln in business. Still hundreds of building with crack structural steel that haven't been repaired.

i repair equalizer bars for large Cat dozers using NS-3M. Joining A572 plate burn out to heat treated 4140 steel forgings, never had a breakage.

Most wires have aluminum alloy; not good for our health, aluminum is a neurotoxin. Also used with vaccines to cause immune system reactions. Magnesium fumes cause dementia type issues. I am all for fume extractor guns or hoods....

71M porosity; I keep a scarfing torch handy and carbon arc.

7018 is hard to beat

 

[Steve Bowman]

71M porosity; I keep a scarfing torch handy and carbon arc.

7018 is hard to beat

If only I had a better stick welder....

 

[StanRUS]

Steve,
ESAB (Linde) How To Book with Why and How Come
https://www.esabna.com/euweb/mig_handbook/592mig1_4.htm

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

Buddy, I just want to understand it better. Not just blindly follow instructions.

Sorry.

I am glad for the help. But I do sometimes do things the hard way. Lol

It's a lot more trouble than I anticipated, but i am following the advice. Ended up finding a new roll of lincoln 71m on ebay, after two real welding supply houses said they did not have it. Only e71t-11

I apologize that I came across as a prick about it; just jumping to conclusions on my part from what little is provided, and definitely not my place (especially being new here). Try to give everyone a fair shake, and I'm guilty of doing things the hard way myself. No offense meant.