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650J Blade Ball and Socket Joint

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by John Deer, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. John Deer

    John Deer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Llano County, Texas
    I just purchased a John Deere 650J LGP. The 6 bolts that secure the retaining ring to the blade ball and socket joint work loose after only a few hours use. The manual says not to use to use anti seize (Locktite) on the bolts. Has anyone experienced this or does anyone have suggestions on how to get the bolts to stay tight?
     
  2. blademan150

    blademan150 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    81
    Occupation:
    Retired Local 150 Operating Engineer
    Location:
    No. Il
    Just a thought, anti-seize (never seize) isn't lock tite. If it was me I'd clean up the threads on the bolts and the tapped holes REAL clean use a wire brush and acetone and Locktite the heck out of them and use new lock washers if they will fit with no interference. Only my opinion on what I'd do. Clyde
     
  3. carlsharp

    carlsharp Well-Known Member

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    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Chino Hills, CA
    I'm gonna kinda repeat blademan here, with a little more emphasis. :salute

    Not only is anti-seize NOT locktite, it's COMPLETELY the opposite! :)

    Be sure everything is super clean, esp the mating surfaces. Any dirt/paint/rocks/burrs/pulled holes/etc will compromise the union. Use locktite primer. Be sure the ring is not warped. Be sure it's not worn out and hammering itself apart. Be sure the bolts are using most of the threads in the holes but not bottoming out. Adjust the length with HARDENED grade 8+ washers.

    Buy NEW grade 8+ bolts.

    Use a torque wrench. Torque values exist for a reason, just enough stretch for maximum hold. Too much wreaks the bolt or pulls the threads and not enough comes loose.

    I'd like to hear from the REAL mechanics on HEF- tell me what I missed...
     
  4. John Deer

    John Deer Well-Known Member

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    Mar 6, 2012
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    Location:
    Llano County, Texas
    Thanks for your posts - this is very helpful. I was completely on the wrong track with the Locktite vs anti seize.Thanks again!
     
  5. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,074
    Location:
    SoCal
    I would add that it is likely there is a problem with the joint. When they wear out, and get excessive slop, one of the first clues is the bolts come loose all the time. Cleaned up, new bolts, proper torque MAY solve it, but keep an eye out for further problems.

    While you are doing it, I think but am not sure that the joint will have shims in it. They may need to have some removed or more added to get the clearances right.

    Maybe a JD mechanic can chime in with more detail.
     
  6. buckfever

    buckfever Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    813
    Location:
    southwest pa
    Not a jd mech. but I have a 650 and they do have shims on the ball socket. If it has some slop in it we take out a shim or two. Once your down to no shims left time to breakout the wallet and rebuild the ball and socket.
     
  7. John Deer

    John Deer Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Llano County, Texas
    I am gong to check the shims in the morning if the rain slows down. I will post the results. Thank you all so very much for your help.
     
  8. bullet300xs

    bullet300xs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Pineville La
    Check shims and red lock tight .
     
  9. kevinc1650

    kevinc1650 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Jemison, AL
    Your socket might be wore out on you blade. I work for a big rental company and just had this problem about a month ago. The bolts started come loose and the blade kept popping of the ball. J/D makes a field kit that has a sleave, shims, and bolts. That kits not that bad to buy, but the kicker was buying the tool to put it on with. The tool is what cost. There are ways around the tool to put it on. I started with the whole blade off on the first round. (3hrs knocking out frozen pins and the kit was for a 750 dozier) I drove 2 hrs back to J/D and got the right kit and was able to do it with 1 hr. I will look tomorrow to see what I paid for the kit w/ tool. I think it was around $600. and I think it was around $400 with the tool. I got the tool in the truck and can take a picture of it, but you don't really need.
     
  10. Davvinciman

    Davvinciman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
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    82
    Occupation:
    Operating engineer and business owner
    Location:
    So. California
    If the bolts are used to backing out because the threads have gotten sloppy, they won't stay in even with Loctite. Tap them to the next larger size and THEN Loctite the heck out of them.
     
  11. John Deer

    John Deer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
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    65
    Location:
    Llano County, Texas
    Update - the bolt threads were worn on the upper part where the retainer ring has been slipping on them. The threads are still tight in the socket. I plan to get new bolts as Carl Sharp recommended, check the shim spacing and locktite them back to spec torque. If this doesn't work, I will try the kit kevininc1650 recommended. I will post my results to assist anyone else that might have this issue. It will be a couple of weeks before I can do this work though. Thank all of you for your help on this!!!
     
  12. John Deer

    John Deer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Llano County, Texas
    Final Update - I removed one thickness of shims leaving two thicknesses, replaced the bolts with new ones and reinstalled the new bolts with blue locktite. It is fixed! Thank you all for your help. This forum is great!!!