580SE Power Shuttle Fluid Question

[bowen]

I wonder if the inner valve has been out before & maybe put in the wrong way???

All I know is that it works great otherwise. The only thing I noted was that the little lip seal seemed to fit loose in the groove.
(Horizontally, not loose on the shaft)
Then I had to REALLY tighten the solenoid to stop it from leaking. Still when I do the warm up - it leaks a tad.

With the solenoid off the shuttle, the transmission should not engage if selected - what happens if you start it up & try to drive?

My cooler is off so I cannot crank it at the moment. Also I have no fluid. I wish I has already tried this but I thought oil would spray out all over the barn. Maybe I will install the cooler and add the oil, then try this before installing the solenoid.
The 1st time I changed the fluid in late 2011 the oil looked nasty as if it really needed changing but I did not see any significant metal or items on the screen. Maybe some small specks. Even this 2nd oil change was still cloudy after only 25 hours of use. And I DID get the oil out of the TC again...
So far this time I have only removed the plug, not the bottom pan.

I see that Coleman gets $410.80 for a # N13639 valve assy! I think mine did have two of the o-rings...

 

[alrman]

I see that Coleman gets $410.80 for a # N13639 valve assy! I think mine did have two of the o-rings...

They are a lot cheaper if you search the aftermarket sources

 

[bowen]

I am ashamed to post this but I fixed the problem.


I decided to ohm the coil out again and noticed the wires looked damaged. The wire was still together but the wires inside was broke.
I had only 1/8" or so of wire to work with, and I had to dig out some sealant to even get to this much.
So I done my best to soldier this and insulate it, then lastly putting some silicone around it so it maybe lasts at least a short time.


But the important part is that with this semi-fixed, the clutch now works fine. It was the first time I had ever seen this part work on the hoe.

I wonder where I could fine one of these solenoids for less that $100? I think Case gets about 4X that...
This was a stupid mistake on my part. I am sure that last time I crawled under to tighten the solenoid one more time, my wrench cut the wire.
For anyone that removes the solenoid, the wires may be up on top and not visible from underneath.

You can't hear the solenoid work with the engine running, but mine will energize with just the switch turned on.
I can hear it now, plus it DOES put the unit into neutral.
My coil has about 2.7 ohms of resistance, so it pulls almost 5 amps... pretty hard on that little push-button.
Thanks for all the help. :notworthy

 

[alrman]

Good news!
That coil can be dismantled, if you want/need to do a better repair job.
Just behind each flat of the hex, there is a rivet which will need to be drilled out. Then separate the hex from the body. there is a plunger & spring, then remove the windings from the body. Resolder the wires & assemble.
Should not be much of a problem for a man of your talent.
Replace the rivets with some small pieces of welding rod & pein them into place.

 

[bowen]

Just behind each flat of the hex, there is a rivet which will need to be drilled out.

All of them?


I did not see any when I was studying how to get it apart. I will look closer at mine.
The rear does have a ring that is bent/crimped on.
(This picture was made after I painted it and before I cut the wire)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Being that this thread has been viewed over 9600 times I want to note this.
Attempting to move the hoe with the solenoid off and underneath pushing in that plunger seems really dangerous to me.
In theory if it's working I understand the thing should not move, unless the plunger is pushed in.
But if you push it in to try the valve and it does move you better have a helper on top and prepared for this.
Hoe off the ground, whatever.
Also with the solenoid off the linkage will be loose, and just working the lever might NOT stop the movement.
The solenoid actually holds the linkage in place.
So this is scary to me as I normally work alone and I want to caution anyone else reading this thread in the future.

 

[alrman]

All of them?

I did not see any when I was studying how to get it apart. I will look closer at mine.
The rear does have a ring that is bent/crimped on.
(This picture was made after I painted it and before I cut the wire)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The nut has to come off to do the repair. Every one I have ever seen has the rivets, clean the paint & see what you find. They are right in the middle of the flats.

 

[alrman]

Being that this thread has been viewed over 9600 times I want to note this.
Attempting to move the hoe with the solenoid off and underneath pushing in that plunger seems really dangerous to me.
In theory if it's working I understand the thing should not move, unless the plunger is pushed in.
But if you push it in to try the valve and it does move you better have a helper on top and prepared for this.
Hoe off the ground, whatever.
Also with the solenoid off the linkage will be loose, and just working the lever might NOT stop the movement.
The solenoid actually holds the linkage in place.
So this is scary to me as I normally work alone and I want to caution anyone else reading this thread in the future.

Are you not telling us about something that happened??

 

[bowen]

Are you not telling us about something that happened??

No, no...:drinkup
I just envisioned the thing running over me, then busting the barn door down, then easing on to end up in the neighbors living room.
That transaxle sure does look big to me when I am under there...
And besides you have already warned me about my "avatar" hoe, and to be careful underneath it.

Remember I am used to working on lawn mowers, so all these HUGE wrenches, sledge hammers, and 6 feet cheater bars are new to me.

 

[aus cat]

hi i have a 428c back hoe with power shift and do not have any forward of reverse gears i have checked the fuse and it is ok and have used a solenoid tester and there is no power at the solenoid,s on the gear box could there be a short some where your help would be very grateful

 

[bowen]

hi i have a 428c back hoe with power shift and do not have any forward of reverse gears i have checked the fuse and it is ok and have used a solenoid tester and there is no power at the solenoid,s on the gear box could there be a short some where your help would be very grateful

If you have this same setup the large clutch solenoid is energized to work the clutch.
If you are not getting 12V to the solenoid it should move as normal so this is not the problem.
You can unplug the connector to the solenoid if you want to be sure.
I do not know if they can mechanically stick in the energized position, but I doubt it. There is a pretty strong spring inside.

My Case 580SE has a floor switch plus the button on the bucket control that works the solenoid.
Either switch energizes that large solenoid. And it draws 4 or 5 amps of current.

 

[thewizurd]

580 ck

changed starter with rebuilt and after 10 min running noticed oil from starter.......removed starter
and found oil in bell housing at bottom of starter bottom bolt.....help

 

[580cnightmare]

Thanks Bowen, I have a 580c with shuttle problems, like jumping in and out of pulling. I got some ideas were to start troubleshooting.

 

[melben]

580 ck

changed starter with rebuilt and after 10 min running noticed oil from starter.......removed starter
and found oil in bell housing at bottom of starter bottom bolt.....help

If you have a pre C series 580 with power shuttle that is completely normal as they have a wet bell housing and require a sealed starter and a starter gasket

 

[580cnightmare]

Shuttle fluid was low. Learning more every day