1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

580C can't fit rebuilt ram into cylinder

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by silverstr8p, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. LN Pipeline

    LN Pipeline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Montana, USA
    The lift rams on my JCB had a sharp 90 degree ledge where it transitioned from the bore to the threads. So sharp that if I slid my thumb along it with pressure, I probably could have drew blood.

    I had to take emery cloth and smooth off the ledge before I could get the piston back in. I don’t know how the factory got them in without destroying the seals.
     
  2. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,223
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Usually on that type of lip there is an insert in the seal kit that is an installation guide.
     
    mg2361 and Tim Burke like this.
  3. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,702
    Location:
    On A Riverbank in IL. USA
    I looked at the cylinder in the parts book.
    The cylinder is simply a plain ole Case cylinder. I am still wondering if the piston rings (seals) are stacked correctly and in the correct direction. It is crucial that the soft seal is in the proper location and not backwards on the piston.
    There is no reference to a seal guide.
    I need to reseal the boom cylinder on my own backhoe. If I have time tomorrow I will start on it and maybe see if it also has a ledge in the barrel. It won't be the first time for it either !
     
  4. sled dog

    sled dog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    88
    Location:
    Hartdford City, In.
    You're right. Something isn't right. Almost looks like an old seal wedged in there...
     
  5. sled dog

    sled dog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    88
    Location:
    Hartdford City, In.
    One time, years ago I had one that didn't want to go past the bevel. I wrapped the piston and seals with a sheet of VERY thin shim stock. The stock allowed the piston to slip past the bevel, then just gently pulled the stock out.
     
  6. Swetz

    Swetz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2019
    Messages:
    229
    Occupation:
    Electric & Gas Company
    Location:
    NJ/PA
    Brass shim stock has worked for me in the past as well. I have also used the same shim stock around the seals with worm clamps (radiator style clamps). As soon as the seals are on, and still warm, I wrap them and tighten for about a half hour. Once removing the clamp, immediately install before the seals expand again. You may need a combination of the above.
     
    sled dog likes this.
  7. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,347
    Occupation:
    Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
    Location:
    Sunny South Carolina
    If u have a small cylinder or brake hone..?? THAT might knock it down a smidge.
    Couldnt hurt.. do u see any reason for the "lip"..??
     
    92U 3406 and Billrog like this.
  8. geminijo

    geminijo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    minnesota
    Putting the rod/piston in the freezer overnight may also help.Just make sure you don't get any hydraulic oil on your frozen burger!:)
     
    92U 3406 likes this.
  9. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,702
    Location:
    On A Riverbank in IL. USA
    Mike Bramel is a professional hydraulic rebuilder and is the one person I know of that can give you a definite answer to your question.Hopefully he will read your thread.
    His user name is Mikebramel.
     
  10. melben

    melben Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    pennsylvania
    Just me but if that rough step is the issue, I would take a 1 inch ball on a die grinder and take that ledge out, the cylinder should have a taper to aid in starting the packing and it looks to me somehow it got roughed up. If you take my advice pack the cylinder with clean rags and after grinding make sure every bit of the grindings are out of the barrel and threads, one piece of grinding in the gland threads will ruin the barrel and gland. you will not be affecting where the packings seal in operation.
     
    Tinkerer likes this.
  11. Coy Lancaster

    Coy Lancaster Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,130
    Occupation:
    service tech
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I always take a screw clamp and put on piston seal to squeeze seal so it will install easier, when you install seal put clamp on it and tighten down until you get ready to put into tube then take clamp off and grease the heck out of it.
     
    Vetech63 likes this.
  12. Bigdigger

    Bigdigger Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5
    Occupation:
    Test Operator
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Use a ring compressor to squeeze the seals on the piston side then get some dry ice and immerse the piston and compressor in the ice for 30 minutes this will make the seals contract. Once you are ready to install take compressor off and use plenty of grease and it should slide in and then the seals will re-expand as they warm up. I do this alot in the aircraft industry in order to get seals to go into bores that are super tight tolerances. Its calles sizing the seals.
     
    highwayghost likes this.
  13. old and slow

    old and slow Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Satellite beach
    Dremel tool it, also you are always better off honing a cylinder to break the glaze. Brush research flex hones work well 320 grit you can make extensions as needed, hone it and wash it good. The piston ring on my case 580d was a expandable type. I put them on then put the piston in the cooler for awhile. The material goes back from where you stretch it. The rod and piston require some force to get started. I also have ran into problems with replacement seals that where not exactly right. If your piston seal is a split pst seal put it on with whetherstrip adhesive hold it tight till it sets,a few minutes, then eat lunch and come back and assemble. The cranes i have done all have split piston seals and gluing them is the best bet.
     
  14. silverstr8p

    silverstr8p Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thanks @moonlight , that piston compressor clamp thing worked! I put it on then waited a day for the seals to shrink down a bit, then put it in. I still had to whack it with a hammer to get it to slide in, but it clearly had less resistance than before. I pulled it out after inserting it a little bit to see if it was deforming the seals and it wasn't so I re-inserted and gave it some taps with a hammer, but it went in. Here's a picture of what I have.
    [​IMG]

    It works and doesn't seem to leak. Now I'll put the bucket assembly on and see if it bleeds off over time, but it seems okay so far. Thanks for all the help!
     
  15. old and slow

    old and slow Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Satellite beach
     
  16. old and slow

    old and slow Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Satellite beach
    Glad you got it, on my 580D all the cylinders had a nice taper machined in them, one of the Grove cranes I have on the boom cylinder there is a machined out grove before the seal gets in the barrel, terrible design. I think it was for clearance for cutting the thread. We ended up filling it with wax, Gulf wax. We packed it in gave a surface for the seal to go over. ths cylinder was 8 inch diameter, so it was easy to work in the barrel