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3412E in a D9L

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by heymccall, May 27, 2021.

  1. heymccall

    heymccall Senior Member

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  2. catman13

    catman13 Senior Member

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    great job guys
     
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  3. skyking1

    skyking1 Senior Member

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    Very cool!
     
  4. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    A very nicely-executed conversion.

    Worth mentioniong though that the D9L morphed into the D10N when Cat changed all their model numbers in 1987. So it's not like the two models are so different. So what they've ended up with is a D9L with a D10R engine, and probably the same 10-15% higher fuel consumption from the HEUI engine that they complain about in the article when comparing the 9L to their existing 10R tractors. I would have been really impressed if they had installed a C27 to replace the 3412 engine and made themselves the equivalent of a D10T. Quite frankly it would have been far more reliable in the long term than a 3412E.

    It's kinda interesting that a Cat document has existed for probably 20 years for repowering a D9L...... "This Special Instruction provides the procedure in order to repower a D9L Track-Type Tractor. The replacement engine will be a Tier I level 3412E engine." I notice the link says they spent "hours of research" on SIS. I found it in signficantly less time than that, probably less than a minute.

    upload_2021-5-28_16-31-52.png

    My opinion (*others may be available)
     

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    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  5. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Equipment World is an advertiser magazine that writes puff articles that please the manufacturers. They sell advertising space as well. It's an OK rag for getting an idea of the features coming out on new machines but my impression is that the editors write up what the makers tell them write. They write all roses and candy canes.
     
  6. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Having never seen this publication before that explains a lot.
     
  7. d9gdon

    d9gdon Senior Member

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    That's a good article about some vintage iron. Good to see contractors still using them.

    I wonder why after all that they didn't convert the track frames over to the D10N/R style as many did to avoid the high track wear on the D9L's that I've heard about. Maybe that changes the width of the dozer and that's why they like the D9L over the D10N/R/T?
     
  8. Puffie40

    Puffie40 Well-Known Member

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    The article mentions the D10s required more disassembly to transport than the D9L. You are probably right.
     
  9. oregon96pd

    oregon96pd Well-Known Member

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    They knew it was there, everyone who has ever looked up parts for almost any older cat machine has seen it. They just had zero interest in giving cat the amount of money that they want for that conversion, and at this point any money for a new machine. When we get new machines they are usually a different shade of yellow lol.

    The problem we have with the 9l's is that the rearmost idler breaks the bolts holding the cap on, our older 9l's have an extension welded onto them and machined flat for the three bolt cap. I don't know what 147 has on it, if it's anymore sophisticated or not but that's really the only problem we have with the undercarriage.

    It went to its first job this week, I'm not on it but I can try to get pictures if anyone is interested.
     
  10. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    The purpose of the document is to provide the information to anyone who wants to do the conversion themselves. There is no requirement or obligation to pay the Cat dealer to do the work.
     
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  11. oregon96pd

    oregon96pd Well-Known Member

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    True, however when you don't buy the 10r-1175 complete engine ar from cat and instead get a used engine at auction out of a 657, how do you know what parts will work from the scraper engine and which ones you will need to locate elsewhere.......research on sis. When you rebuild said engine, what parts do you need to put into it to get the horsepower rating you're looking for (9l's are about 460 HP if I remember right, a 657E has to be what, 550?) Find the different components between a 10r and a 57e........it might actually even take some hours to do that.

    In the REHS8199 special instruction it states "Install replacement engine in original mounting location". OK, will the front cover from a 3412 in a 657 accept the front engine mount? Will the converter bolt to the rear cover of a scraper engine? Probably gonna have to look up some part numbers, once again on sis. They bought an engine at an auction that they were attending, it wasn't for the right application so they made it work. Was the way they did it easier, no. Was it cheaper, definitely.
     
  12. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I,m assuming they rebuilt the final drives and rest of the power train as well? Curious if Cat did the conversion, it would be comparable to a certified rebuild/power train rebuild and how the customer done repower/rebuild would compare? Also wondering if pushing scrapers is an easier or harder application on a dozer and if the higher HP of the scraper engine will result in less life expectancy of other components?
     
  13. oregon96pd

    oregon96pd Well-Known Member

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    Engine, torque, trans, steering/brakes, finals, undercarriage, hyd valves, plumbing, wiring, cab, hvac and paint. We have s/u and full u blades for them that get changed as the job that they're going to requires. The engine is setup as an early 10r so it shouldn't really be that big of a jump in horsepower, all of our operator's say that the 10's are pig's anyway's so I guess they'll find out how long it lasts lol. Pushing scrapers seems to be a pretty easy life for a dozer, but once the new and shiny part wears off, that dozer will get thrown into whatever it need's to do just like the rest of them. In a year it'll be out ripping and pushing just like it's sister's lol.

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  14. Rihpper

    Rihpper Well-Known Member

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    That’s one expensive D9L ... the article said 450k.
     
  15. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Today's equivalent machine, D10T, new is around $1.3 million. The capital cost of the rebuild is a real bargain.
     
  16. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    About the only downside to a rebuild is the time it takes. If the outfit has another machine to use then it's not much of a problem at all. 1/3rd the cost of new is a really good deal.
     
  17. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    What is not counted in that 450K?

    I've been part of many total rebuilds from TD9 Internationals to D375 Komatsu, D8 and D9 Cats, and WA600 wheel loaders. A total rebuild never runs 1/3 the cost of new and they never last more than 65% of operational time that a new machine runs. Many costs are not counted. A lot of bragging on labor costs never include the loaded actual costs of labor. Are freight costs included? How about administrative costs? Someone has to pay for that shop space, the miscellaneous costs like rags, solvent tanks, blocking and lifting equipment and so on. How is insurance accounted for in those figures? You have industrial and casualty numbers that fit in somewhere.

    When all is said and done the owner with his own staff and facilities is lucky to do the job for less than two thirds the cost of new, with no warranty provisions and slightly more than fifty percent operating time before another rebuild is necessary. The cost per hour is usually worse for the owner than on a new machine. The final thought is few if any banks are willing to finance that rebuild as well. How many companies would put out that amount of cash on their own?
     
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  18. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Good grief!
     
  19. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    That’s a good point you’ve made
     
  20. JD955SC

    JD955SC Senior Member

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    If you are going with quality rebuilds/remans to new spec or quality OEM new parts and proper repairs of any machine defects why does machine life not equal new?

    I’m not arguing I’m just curious. Is it machine fatigue, poor worksmanship, or poor assembly practices?
     
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