3304 Cat engine blowing oil

[Nitelite]

Earlier, by mistake, I posted this on someone else's thread but I don't know how to delete it, so here goes again.

I have the D4E dozer and it has the Cat 3304 engine in it. I also have a Cat 951C loader with the same 3304 engine in it too. Having before gotten some really good pointers from some knowledgeable people on this forum, and the fact that a 3304 engine is still a 3304 engine no matter what machine it is mounted in, I decided to post my engine question here on the dozer forum as well as the loader forum to get the maximum input.

I could use some help in the way of input from some of the knowledgeable diesel experts and shade tree mechanics here.

My 3304 engine in my 86J--951C loader is blowing some oil or diesel fuel out of the exhaust stack. What would you think would be the cause? There is some whitish blue smoke coming out of the stack and some blow by out of the breather tube. The engine seems to run good. In the pictures you can see oil, or diesel, coming from a small leak at the exhaust manifold to muffler connection. Notice the oil running down the left half of the exhaust stack, in the pictures, it is the shiny side of the top of the stack because it is wet, and the flipper at the top is also wet. You can also see wet specks of oil on the painted hood after a few minutes of idling. I have not really worked the machine since I have owned it. I have installed a new inner and outer air filter and a fresh oil change w / filter. When I got the machine the inner air filter was stopped up and the outer filter was missing. The oil was two gallons low and very dirty. The oil filter was old and dirty but no metal dust inside.

I now have the gaskets and chamber o rings to stop the coolant leak at the chamber o rings. I need to drop the belly pan to hook up the sensor for the new converter temp gage and to get at the transmission filter for a fluid and filter change. Do I need to go ahead and do an in frame overhaul at the same time? New pistons, rings, cylinders and bearings? I don't want to do un necessary work but at the same time I would like to have the machine in good shape come spring.

The machine seems to run smooth and sounds good, but I have not cracked the injectors yet to test each cylinder. I will do that before I pull the pre chambers. The engine temperature gage did not work when I got the machine and I replaced the gage. It seems to run cool, just barely up into the green, but again, I have not really worked the machine yet.

Any and all comments are welcome. My D4E also has the 3304 and it has a dry stack.

 

[D6 Merv]

shes 'slobbering nitelite. 1st question when you replaced inner air cleaner element did it look like any dirt had got through that filter into the engine ??? Even if you remove the aircleaner assembly where it bolts onto the head to check in the air inlet box/cast manifold. Dirt in there well you know what you have to do
If clean, and you've replace oil and filter [its not overfull ???] Fit a new thermostat and engine and converter temp gauges. And stick it into converter stall for awhile to work her and try and bed it in Need to keep a eye on temp esp converter and take her out of gear for abit if it gets too hot. Hard work is only thing that will cure it, and if that fails; is a engine overhaul !!

 

[Maurice Muenks]

If it starts good in cold weather and doesn't smoke I doubt if you need an overhaul, you might check to see if it has a thermostat in it, that machine should run midway in the green, anyway on the ones I have ever seen or worked on. I might just be it is not getting hot enough to clear out the cylinders. The other thought is you might have a broken oil ring, the engine runs good hard to tell anything wrong but uses oil. You might try removing the exhaust manifold and the starting it to see if the cylinders are firing equally and that might tell you something.

 

[Nitelite]

Thanks for the post D6 Merv and Maurice, The old girl does start good when it is dead cold. I think that I need to go ahead and replace the pre combustion o rings and drop the belly pan to change the transmission oil and filter. At the same time I will hook up the new converter temp gage sensor. I have already replaced the engine temp gage. Before I replace the sheet metal and belly pan I will work the machine and really warm it up. Is there a way to tell if it has a thermostat in it without removing the housing? It has a new thermostat housing that was installed by the previous owner.

I don't think that any dirt got past the air filter, there were no tears or holes in it. The previous owner told me that the machine had an in frame in the 1990s. No idea about the hours, the meter does not work.

According to the po, the most recent use of the loader was to start it up, load six scoops of top soil in a dump truck and then shut it down until the next time that he needed to load and deliver deliver top soil.

 

[kshansen]

Is there a way to tell if it has a thermostat in it without removing the housing? It has a new thermostat housing that was installed by the previous owner.

One easy check would be to remove radiator cap when cold and start engine and look in top of radiator for movement in the coolant. If there is a large amount of movement there is a good chance either no thermostat or it is stuck open.

According to the po, the most recent use of the loader was to start it up, load six scoops of top soil in a dump truck and then shut it down until the next time that he needed to load and deliver deliver top soil.

That could be the problem too, lightly loaded diesels will tend to slobber, worst I've seen a those Detroits!

While you have the exhaust off to do the pre-chambers you should be able to see if the problem is one cylinder all of them.

D6 Merv has a good idea, work the heck out of it when you get it back together!

 

[Delmer]

I don't think that any dirt got past the air filter, there were no tears or holes in it. The previous owner told me that the machine had an in frame in the 1990s. No idea about the hours, the meter does not work.

According to the po, the most recent use of the loader was to start it up, load six scoops of top soil in a dump truck and then shut it down until the next time that he needed to load and deliver deliver top soil.

If it didn't get any dirt in it, maybe it needs some? Hopefully you won't have to resort to the "Bon Ami" treatment.

 

[kshansen]

If it didn't get any dirt in it, maybe it needs some? Hopefully you won't have to resort to the "Bon Ami" treatment.

I doubt many of the younger guys around know what that means. One of those things I wish I had saved is the official Cat instructions on doing it, including an actual Cat P/N for the Bon Ami!

 

[Nitelite]

If it didn't get any dirt in it, maybe it needs some?

I would love to get some dirt on it Delmer but it is about 18 degrees outside and I'll bet it is froze to the ground and won't move. Pretty good about the Bon Ami treatment too. LOL

The worst thing about the Bon Ami job is just getting started. One full day in will go along way towards a 3304 overhaul, or at least after the first day I will be fully committed and have a direction.

 

[d4c24a]

bon ami

not on the newer type engines though you will find

 

[d4c24a]

not on the newer type engines though you will find

but you could try at your own risk

 

[D6 Merv]

Have heard of people down here using the vim treatment. Poor peoples alternative to bon ami powder. Vim was a abrasive household powder cleaner for bathrooms etc One contractor had a 2u that slobbered so it got the treatment, a teaspoon full of powder per cylinder. Cleaned it up and away it went !
Nitelite; thermostats cheap and you then know its right and will run at correct temp. Running too cold and too lightly loaded is what stops the rings from bedding in.

 

[heymccall]

My 1996 D4H Series II Dozer has a 3204 engine, and it had similar issues.

On mine, if you left the oil fill cap off, you could actually see exhaust smoke when starting.
Shop that pulled the cylinder head said that, by design, the cylinder head did NOT have valve guide inserts, just machined guide holes. Two of the exhaust valve guide bores were tremendously worn. They machined the head for bronze valve guides, and, she's good as new, now.

Had about 7k hours on her, and, the exhaust "soot" had 3/4 restricted the oil pickup screen. Oil pump looked like new, though

 

[Bob/Ont]

I have seen one good engine pump oil out the stack like that. Liners and rings were good except the coil spring expander in the oil control ring had carved it's pattern into the under side of the oil control ring. Eventually the spring caught hold of the oil control ring and kept it from riding the surface of the liner wall. Pulled the pistons and the oil rings were in tight not out like the compression rings. Gave them a squeeze and they sprung out as they should have been. You might find this or the engine might have been dusted. Inspect the intake or dust, look behind corners for dust drifted in like snow behind a snow fence. The repair is more than changing the worn parts, you must find cause and correct it or history will repeat it's self.
Later Bob

 

[kshansen]

If it didn't get any dirt in it, maybe it needs some?

I would love to get some dirt on it Delmer but it is about 18 degrees outside and I'll bet it is froze to the ground and won't move.

18, that's not cold it was 22 º colder here this morning!

 

[Maurice Muenks]

After looking at what others have posted about using some sort of ring seating compound as we called it at the dealership I worked at, and reading about how the loader was used, it probably never had a chance to really warm up. Now that that brings up another scenario that used to be a problem in them "gooden olden days" My dad had just overhauled a D7-3t and after about 500 hours it started to slobber oil. He got hold of his oil man about the problem. Come to find out according to the shell factory man dad was using Shell Rimula or Shell X100 according to him they both came out of the same vat and at that time it wasn't intended to be used in heavy construction diesel engines. The factory man suggested the he change to Rotella which was at that time series 3 and to use 30W. The oil man's recommendation as to use half and half for a short time and the change it out. Then change completely to the series 3. He was afraid that if dad changed over all at once it would cut the carbon and sludge loose all at one time and plug the filters. This all happened in the 50's so I'm sure things have changed. (If I'm not careful people might think I'm over the hill!)

So you might just have sticking rings from improper oil used by the previous owner, and a good 30W oil and some honest work it might straightened itself out. Wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[Nitelite]

From reading all of the opinions so far, looks like running the machine really hard just might be the answer.

 

[Delmer]

From reading all of the opinions so far, looks like running the machine really hard just might be the answer.

At least the near unanimous best guess. After insuring the thermostat is functioning.

 

[tctractors]

From reading all of the opinions so far,?? I would strip off the water feed to the engine oil cooler, its 2 hose clips and 6 bolts (2 of them tricky) before you start putting your slippers on, if its blocked its the reason the chamber seals have spat the dummy out, if the blood pressure (oil) is on top form on both low and high idle with good power responce under both hydraulic stall and converter stall it might be worth trying the motor under working load, ofter the oil detent for fuel rack travel fails to lift on first start up with the engine shutting down, needing a second cranking of the engine to start and lift the rack control giving full movement of the throttle lever, you need to hook in a good PSI scaled engine oil pressure gauge to give a proper indication of how things stand.
tctractors
p.s. on the vim sprinkles lark its best done with the inlet manifold off on something like D7/8's on 3304/6's its best done through both inlet locations on the head (front and rear) if you are feeling lucky????

 

[Nitelite]

Tony, correct me if I am wrong, but according to my manual my naturally aspirated 3304 does not have a turbo and therefore it has no oil cooler. Are there exceptions?
I think it would be wise, as you suggested, for me to put a PSI oil pressure gage on it before I decide to tear the engine down.

Thanks for the input.

 

[tctractors]

Nitelite, just to put you in the picture, I have cut up for parts around 30 951 A/B/C/ shovels, I also am nearing the end of restoring a 951B, I cut up 2 951 C's to get enough good chunks to poke into the B' (plus bits to sell) so I sort of know the Turbo is not fitted to 951's but the engine oil cooler is, its the lump that is just above the spin on oil filter, this being blocked usualy cooks the chamber seals, the transmission cooler is on the right side of the rad from the seat, as I said poke a PSI oil gauge into the engine and give it a bit of excitement for around an hour to see what the gauge records. tctractors