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255 70R 22.5 low pro vs 10.00-15 tires

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by workshoprat92, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    Buying an old Rogers lowboy that has the 10.00-15 tires. Which means it also has the small brake drum to accomadate those low boy tires. Looking at re axling this trailer with the regular 16 inch brake drums and using 255 70r 22.5 low pro tires. I think they are about the same as far as diameter and load rating. Thinking this may be a better setup for brakes and plus it gets me away from tbe daytons a d back to bud wheels. Anyone ever do a conversion like this? received_1183949055101259.jpeg
     
  2. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I know a guy with a rogers and his trailer doesn't have a full axle going across, its like a welded box walking beam on each side with stub axles. He wanted to re axle it, and I didn't see a good way to do it without all new suspension and totally rewelding the rear end of the trailer. He didn't want to do that much work.

    What is the suspension on the rear of the trailer, and what do the axles look like?

    I see old tandem set ups quite often that people have pulled out of old van trailers making storage trailers out of them, $500-$1,000 for the full trailer tandems most of the time. I think that would be the route I would go in getting the axles/ brakes/ valves, etc. You would get it all in one shot.

    https://kansascity.craigslist.org/hvo/d/pittsburg-set-of-slide-axles/6905146481.html

    That's quite the boneyard of old trailers too.
     
  3. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    Crane operator you are correct on the suspension. It is a walking beam setup with the axle stubs welded into the beams. The beams are fabricated with rectangular tube. Like you say this means the axles do no go all the way across. Now please keep in mind what im about to say is purely theoretical and im not trying to look like a know it all and really would like some feedback if you all think this is possible and if you think its crazy as well as your thoughts on the tire differences pros and cons more than anything.

    The axle stubs on the walking beam look to be round and go all the way through the beam. They are then welded in and a cap welded to the inside of the axle tube where it comes through the beam. It looks to me like it would be no problem to cut it out and install new stubs that have been cut from a full axle. I already have axles i can use so i have the largest part of the battle beat. I really think a guy who takes his time with a torch and grinder can remove the old stubs and weld new ones in. The beams I would want to take out anyhow so i can replace the bushings. This trailer is a project but i have more time than money and the frame and cross beams are solid and not rusted out.

    I have a Large lathe, mill, good welders and plenty of power to lift and move whatever needs moving so a project lke this is well within my skillset. Just realy curious if anyone has already done what im thinking?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  4. Jonas302

    Jonas302 Senior Member

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    Are you sure you cant buy a hub that goes on the current axle
     
  5. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    When I looked at fixing up my buddies trailer, I was going to just cut off the fabricated walking beam, and weld in the full air suspension that came with the tandem axle set.

    It looked like less work to me, to weld in the new suspension to the trailer, than try to do the axle stubs. I kinda doubted my skills in getting the axle stubs welded in straight to each other in the beam and straight to the trailer, I'm sure they are welded in a jig at the factory. I was just going to do a bunch of measuring and marking on the trailer to get the full suspension straight. I figured I'd have better luck welding in the full suspension and axles and then end up with a trailer that maybe only dogtracked a little. :)

    We were trying to get rid of the small tires and the small brakes also. He needed a full brake job and was having difficulty finding parts for his.

    His trailer was just too far gone to invest all the time fixing it. The rear of the trailer was all broken out, and the neck had welds busted out had been horribly patched in the past, and some serious rust issues also.

    That said, I think the switch to 22.5 would be much nicer for you than the old 15's. Its getting harder to find tubes and flaps, and tires. I just think if I was going to all that work, I'd just as soon have air ride (and I think it would be easier) , but I don't know what you have for axles/ suspension laying around. My lowboy runs 255 22.5's. But I'm tri axle so I don't get terribly high axle loads. My heavier crane I haul is only 70,000 or so, so I only have 45,000 or so gross on the rear tri axle.

    I guess for me- the trailer better be cheap (under $10,000), and you need to be happy with a ground bearing trailer. If its much over $10,000, I think you could buy what you want ( used) cheaper than you can rebuild that one.
     
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  6. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    Yes you can buy conversion hubs. It would be far cheaper to buy a axle set out of a trailer someone took out to drop the trailer on the ground. I see them all the time around 200 to 400 dollar range and all wheels included. Would be a little work but I have more time than money.
     
  7. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    I took delivery on this trailer today! I bought it for 4k! Is that cheap enough lol? I think it was cheap enough im willing to take on the project. I have looke at a bunch of detach trailers over 10k that were in much worse shape and rusted out. This ol girl has alot of life left. It just needs some of my magic and love. Not sure which way im gona go on the axles weither i cut and weld new stubs or do full suspension like you say. I just need more time to work on it now. I think you and I think much along the same lines. Sure would like to meet you someday!

    Also whats wrong with a ground bearing trailer. I have never had a detach so i know nothing about them. I know guys that have ground bearing trailers and have never heard anything bad about them. Am I missing something?
     
  8. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    The danger with ground bearing trailer, is if its hot or muddy.

    If its hot and you try to drop it on asphalt, the foot on the trailer can leave a nice circle in the middle of the road or parking lot, and even punch through. Unhappy road dept. or parking lot owner.

    If its muddy and you're on gravel or dirt, you just end up pushing the foot into the mud instead of lifting the trailer. Makes it kind of hard to unhook.

    The other downside is in ground clearance. If I go across a high spot, or turn off a road on a corner where its crowned, I can hang up the center of my trailer. With my non ground bearing, all I have to do is kick in the pumps, and raise the neck off the pins, and I can probably lift the trailer high enough to get it off the crown/ hump/ railroad tracks that I'm stuck on.

    The only way to do that with a ground bearing is try to put the foot down and get some bigger wedges in the neck and then let it back down and try to drive over whatever hung you up.

    Your trailer looks like a pretty short well, (20-22'?) so you won't have as much trouble hanging up as the larger wells do. Mine is like 25', I see a lot of 28'-30' wells and then its real easy to hang up.
     
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  9. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I looked at quite a few trailers before I bought mine, and I was real interested in the price of the ground bearing, but some good guys here on the forum gave me some great advice, and I am really glad I ended up with a non ground bearing.

    My shop driveway is on a curve and crowned, and I've stuck it on my corner if I don't hit it just right. My guy who used to haul it for me stuck his on my corner quite often, his trailer was closer to the ground than mine is.
     
  10. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    The only real big downside to low pro tires is it's easier to cut a side wall they dont have as much give

    I have gone off the side of a ground bearing on 3 occasions once do to hot asphalt and twice do to the pony motor not starting never ran an air detach looks fancy seems to work good
     
  11. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    Crane operator thats all good info. I think for the price I can be happy with it and make it work. On swithching the whole suspension air rife might be nice as you can adjust ride hight to get unhung. Or thats theory anyhow lol.
    This trailer is 19 ft well so im not expecting to huge an issue.

    Azlron I can see that would be a downside to the low pros. Still with the availability of the old 10.00 15s it might well offset that issue. Any I thought side loading was a super huge no no. Or so i have always been told. Idk
     
  12. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

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    Side loading has some variables most of witch the operator because you can twist the outer beam on the side your going up or down on from slipping a track on it but if you are hauling something lite like a backhoe it would be hard to hurt a 35 ton trailer. Sometimes depending on site conditions you may not be able to drop and hook backup a lot of opinions vary it's not something I make a habit of
     
  13. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    Do as you wish with the trailer, but if it were mine, I'd rob a whole suspension setup out of a van trailer, save the whole trying to get the stub axles welded in straight affair and forget the air ride and go with simple spring ride, then all you need is new hangers to weld on the underside of your trailer.

    I might be wrong but those stub axles are heavier than normal axle tubes and much easier to tweak out of shape once on the trailer which leads to eating up tires at a rapid rate if I recall.

    If your brakes are hard to find parts for, how about the walking beam parts that you plan to save??

    If you could find a used single point suspension and axles out of a flopped over end dump would be an ideal setup in my opinion, much better still than even simple spring suspension like hutch even.

    Before I'd spend a great deal of money on this ground bearing trailer, I'd opt to run and use it a little first, every ground bearing trailer I've been around, I'd never spend a penny on let alone keep long enough to ever spend much on it before it was sold or traded for a non ground bearing trailer I could use year round and actually load and unload. I'll second what crane operator said about the difference between ground and non ground bearing trailers and add many pages more to the discussion, if it were free and brand new, no ground bearing trailer would ever be behind any truck I owned or had to use, what's worse than ground bearing is mechanical detach but they would both have to fight it out for the bottom of the list in my opinion.

    If you decide to keep the ground bearing trailer, make sure you put every single block you own and can buy loaded somewhere on the trailer, it saves having to call someone to haul you pickup loads of blocks later on when your stuck, hung up or not able to get hooked back up.

    The only upside to ever owning a ground bearing trailer is this, you have much more situational awareness, and you know enough to check if you have cell phone coverage in the area your going to drive BEFORE you ever go there and you also know who to call when you need them and also their expected response time to get to you and the real deal is, you know intimately ever railroad crossing in your area and also who with the railroad to call if you have trouble, also I'll bet you'll even know the train schedules and plan your routes around them, don't ask how I know this, it brings up bad memories.
     
  14. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    Lol geez how do ya really feel about ground bearing lol? The trailer has already been purchased and I cant touch a non ground bearing anywhere near for the price i got this one. Unfortunately us poor boys sometimes just have to make due. Its starting to cool down here and im getting an itch to start working on this trailer. I still think re stubbing the exsisting beams is going to be the way to go. The beams are fabricated from square tube stock. There is not a single part of it i cannot fabricate or re create. This makes parts avalibility negligable. Plus if i pull a suspension out of a box van trailer i think id have to figure out how to mount the axle on top of the springs instead of on the bottom of the stack to get the correct ride hieght. I dont know if thats easy to do or not id just have to look at it. Plus the way the rear of the trailer is designed im not sure it would fit. I will knuw more when i get it flipped over so i can get a better look see. Something else hit me reading you talk about getting hung up. I have off an old diamond reo a hydraulic lift hitch fifth wheel. I think the truck was used by a house mover and i could see where a liftable hitch could be real handy for moving houses or pulling a low pro trailer. I should be at the yard where it is tommorow and will get a picture of it. More to come. Stay tuned!
     
  15. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    Hydraulic fifth wheel I would think should help out a lot if you get hung up while pulling it, never gave that a thought.
     
  16. bam1968

    bam1968 Senior Member

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    Randy88 makes some very good points. That being said I currently have a ground bearing trailer that we run almost daily. I would be lying if I said we have never had any issues but we have learned what we can and cannot do for the most part and get along fairly well. Is my next trailer going to be a ground bearing trailer?? Absolutely NOT!!! That being said this current trailer was a big improvement from the old hyster fixed neck that we used prior to this ground bearing trailer. Just my $.02
     
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  17. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    Here is the hyd lift hitch. Other than the tree once growing up through it its cherry lol! 20190926_100537.jpg 20190926_100611.jpg
     
  18. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I'm guessing the small brake can is to lock the pin. Is it apply air to lock, or apply air to unlock?

    If that roller raise assembly is loose, it may beat the truck and trailer back and forth pretty hard just from the slop. Not a problem for the spotter truck it probably was originally on, those guys get beat to death anyways on a yard. But it isn't going to encourage a nice ride.

    I think I would pull it for a while on your truck, you could always go to the 5th wheel thing if you had to.

    I think your short well is going to save you from some of the hanging up problems, if you have tall rubber on the truck and a tall 5th wheel for some extra front trailer height wouldn't hurt.
     
  19. workshoprat92

    workshoprat92 Senior Member

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    I think the air pod would be to unlock it. I am assuming it locks when you back into it. Honestly I dont remember this unit being what it is and for some reason i remembered it being detter than what it is! I dont know how well i would trust it. Still mivht be an option if need be. Just more shop time to find out.
    I did get the trailer moved up by the shop and the toung removed and it flopped over for easy suspension access. Should have some pictures on that tommorow. Im really on the fence as what to do there and just need to give it a good think. I need to get it all pulled apart and go from there! Once the beams are disassembled it should be easier to see what i got!