Hello, I recently picked up a Cat Skid Steer 249D. Everything was working fine until it suddenly stopped working. I have power but no crank/ no start. I’m thinking it might be a safety switch. I’ve checked starter and it’s good. I tested the starter and it works perfectly fine. Attached is a picture of the cluster and the lights that I have on while the switch is on. Any help is appreciated. TIA.
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249D Cat SkidSteer No Crank/No Start
- Thread starter JP913
- Start date
Hello, I recently picked up a Cat Skid Steer 249D. Everything was working fine until it suddenly stopped working. I have power but no crank/ no start. I’m thinking it might be a safety switch. I’ve checked starter and it’s good. I tested the starter and it works perfectly fine. Attached is a picture of the cluster and the lights that I have on while the switch is on. Any help is appreciated. TIA.
Nige
Senior Member
If you were sitting in the seat with the lap bar down when you took that photo then either the operator seat pressure switch or the lap bar switch are acting up.
Also the single icon below the other three is showing that the work tool lockout is activated.
If you would like an electrical schematic to help with your diagnostics please post a Serial Number.
By the sounds of it you don't have an Operation & Maintenance Manual. I think Cat Publication SEBU9084 is the correct one but it depends on your S/N.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313726772833
Also the single icon below the other three is showing that the work tool lockout is activated.
If you would like an electrical schematic to help with your diagnostics please post a Serial Number.
By the sounds of it you don't have an Operation & Maintenance Manual. I think Cat Publication SEBU9084 is the correct one but it depends on your S/N.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313726772833
Chrisso
Senior Member
That's what should happen Doug. Sounds like a door switch or something else. What exactly is going on? And s/n please.
S/n RED00782 my machine was left running and stalled when I returned to it . When I went to start it yellow exclamation mark blinking and work tool lockout light red, machine shows codes 358-6, 681-6,and 598-6 all solenoids current above normal. I have confirmed continuity from J plugs to solenoids and also checked them all for continuity to ground and it all checks out . Park lock solenoid has 6.5 ohms resistance (I’m not sure what is normal) Other 2 solenoids have 6.9 and 7 ohms resistance , I can start the machine by shorting across starter relay but can not get the work tool lockout to come off.
Nige
Senior Member
Attached the troubleshooting procedures for the three Active codes you have. Try running them all and see where it gets you.
I'll send you an electrical schematic. Keep an eye on your messages.
I'll send you an electrical schematic. Keep an eye on your messages.
Nige
Senior Member
Update from OP.......... "i tried unplugging all 3 solenoids one at a time and all 3 gave me the same results of changing to a FMI 05 code . I see this says to replace solenoids. But I have a question.
Isn't it odd that all three would fail same time? Also remember this whole problem started when my machine was left idling and stalled on its own ,we also found out the battery was failing a load test ( it was only a few months old) so I charged the battery and it passed a load test and I went ahead and installed a new alternator in the machine thinking maybe it failed and caused the battery to die and potentially stalled the machine? Is there any chance I could be right about alternator failing and potentially damaging solenoids? Thoughts.?"
Resistance of solenoid coils was outside spec, but only just - spec is 7.5 +/- 0.4 ohms and they came in at 6.9 & 7.0 ohms.
OP has replaced all three solenoids with new and the Diagnostic Codes have not gone away.
Isn't it odd that all three would fail same time? Also remember this whole problem started when my machine was left idling and stalled on its own ,we also found out the battery was failing a load test ( it was only a few months old) so I charged the battery and it passed a load test and I went ahead and installed a new alternator in the machine thinking maybe it failed and caused the battery to die and potentially stalled the machine? Is there any chance I could be right about alternator failing and potentially damaging solenoids? Thoughts.?"
Resistance of solenoid coils was outside spec, but only just - spec is 7.5 +/- 0.4 ohms and they came in at 6.9 & 7.0 ohms.
OP has replaced all three solenoids with new and the Diagnostic Codes have not gone away.
Chrisso
Senior Member
Make sure you're cycling the battery isolator (or disconnecting the battery) before checking if the codes are still active. What's the battery voltage on the new battery across the battery posts? Does this change when you hit the start key? The voltage numbers are important.
If all that's ok, check the machine ECM is getting the proper powers (key on & constant) and grounds as per your schematic. For that you'll need some spoons on your multimeter. Again the voltage values are important.
If that checks out fine, it's time to run some new wires between the machine ECM and those solenoids. Cycle isolator, check for codes. If they're gone, you had a harness issue. If they're not, your ECM is bad.
If all that's ok, check the machine ECM is getting the proper powers (key on & constant) and grounds as per your schematic. For that you'll need some spoons on your multimeter. Again the voltage values are important.
If that checks out fine, it's time to run some new wires between the machine ECM and those solenoids. Cycle isolator, check for codes. If they're gone, you had a harness issue. If they're not, your ECM is bad.
Chrisso
Senior Member
Just had a thought... just before you go to the trouble of running 6 new wires, start by disconnecting a pair of wires from the ECM first (pick one of those troubleshooting procedures Nige posted above) and let 'em dangle. One of those codes must change from a -6 to a -5. If it doesn't, stop there and let us know.
Chrisso
Senior Member
Ok great. Doing this just ruled out the solenoid energise circuit to each solenoid. Unfortunately the Cat diagnostic procedures just focus on the energise circuit and don't offer much help from hereon.
Also disregard my comments about running wires. I just realised the H807 wire is common on all three of your three faulting solenoid circuits. They all join up creating the return circuit, and lead to pin #4 on the J2 machine ECM plug. Running new wires wouldn't be practical, sorry 'bout that.
So, given we have three solenoids faulting and all of them share a common return circuit, one would suspect that return circuit. This is it in it's simplest form...
Find and inspect all harnesses in the homemade doodling above. Find CONN 1, CONN 2 & CONN 12. Actual machine locations are in your schematic. Pull apart, look, clean, blow dry, put back together, check for codes.
If that doesn't fix it we'll try some other tricks.
Nige
Senior Member
Did you investigate the continuity of the common ground wire for all three solenoids as described by Chrisso above.?
Nige
Senior Member
Ground at the ECM end of the harness, or to machine frame ground.?
Nige
Senior Member
Sorry that's not correct. Pin 4 on connector J2 of the ECM is marked as a dedicated solenoid return for wire H807 Yellow. That is the how the return for the circuits for those three solenoids is completed, and what the ECM checks for (in addition to the power side of the circuit) when setting Diagnostic Codes. It has nothing to do with grounding to the machine frame.
Try this.
1. Locate CONN 1 & CONN 2 on the machine and disconnect both of them. (You do not have to worry about CONN 12 just yet because it connects to an accessory you do not have).
2. Disconnect connector J2 at the ECM.
3. Disconnect the 2-pin connectors at all three solenoids.
4. Check for continuity as follows. All wires will be Yellow: -
a) Wire H807-P19 between the Implement shutoff solenoid and Pin 33 on the half of CONN 2 that contains the male pins.
b) Wire H807-C33 between Pin 33 on the female (socket) half of CONN 2 and Pin 4 of ECM connector J2.
c) Wire H807-E12 between the Park Brake solenoid and Pin 38 on the male half of CONN 1.
d) Wire H807-C34 between Pin 38 on the female (socket) half of CONN 1 and Pin 4 of ECM connector J2.
e) Wire H807-E56 between the 2-Speed solenoid and Pin 36 on the male half of CONN 1.
f) Wire H807-C33 between Pin 36 on the female (socket) side of CONN 1 and Pin 4 of ECM connector J2.
Report your results.
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Nige
Senior Member
Grab hold of the H807 Yellow wire where it goes into the J2 connector and do a "pull test". Gently pull the wire as though you are trying to remove it from the connector housing. It shouldn't move. Once you have confirmed whether it moves or not push it inwards as far as it will go.
Is the interior of the J2 connector (where the sockets are) clean and free from signs of damp or corrosion.? Also carefully inspect the socket of J2 Pin 4 and check if it is split, bulged, or damaged in any other way.
Is the interior of the J2 connector (where the sockets are) clean and free from signs of damp or corrosion.? Also carefully inspect the socket of J2 Pin 4 and check if it is split, bulged, or damaged in any other way.