200clc loss of power

[NathanSkallerup]

Hey there, I have a 2005 Deere 200clc. As of lately it has been losing power to the point of stalling the motor while just operating the hydraulics, even with no load on them. The machine tons great for about the first five minutes until things warm up, then it's starts bogging down, running rough, and putting some odd smoke out the exhaust. So far I've been told that it's either the injection pump (standayne de10) or the computer off the machine. Neither part is cheap, just looking for some opinions on which to change first, how to figure out which it is, or any other options on what the problem may actually be. Thanks

 

[thepumpguysc]

The computer control the inj. pump.. so you gotta MAKE SURE that you have atleast 5 PSI to the inj.pump
INLET at FULL LOAD..
It would be worth the effort, to plumb a gauge inline at the inj. pump or as close to it as you could get..
THAT will tell you a lot..

 

[NathanSkallerup]

Alright. I will see what I can do. Don't have a lot of the gauges and hookups for that kind of stuff. Maybe I'll have to go but some supplies. Is it possible these issues are stemming from the lift pump then? Gosh that would be nice.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Its been awhile since I worked on 1 but I do remember they are hard piped to the inlet.. what about tapping into a bleed screw on the filter head?? as long as your taking your reading AFTER the lift pump, anywhere will be ok..

 

[d9gdon]

Check to see if something's floating around in your fuel tank and blocking the fuel supply hose and then floating again when the engine is stopped.

 

[NathanSkallerup]

How exactly can you check that? I've looked into the tank the best I can from the top, and blown the fuel lines back until tank to be sure they aren't plugged. But there isn't a lot of room to look into that full hole. They don't make anything easy do they!

 

[tool_king]

How exactly can you check that? I've looked into the tank the best I can from the top, and blown the fuel lines back until tank to be sure they aren't plugged. But there isn't a lot of room to look into that full hole. They don't make anything eate do they!

Make sure your filter heads are clean .Take black caps off or if there is hand primer on one or both make the check valve under them are clean. You can pull them out a pair of pliers.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Lift pumps are inexpensive compared to the "other" culprits.. if you cant get a guage plumbed in, just replace the LP..
IF you narrow it down to the IP.. it HAS TO BE TIMED before removal..
& you need a puller, to pop off the front gear..
They didn't make ANYTHING easy..

 

[NathanSkallerup]

I did just go ahead and replace the lift pump. Didn't seem to make any difference. And near as I can tell there is no air in the system or restrictions for the fuel. So I'm really thinking is the injection pump. At least that sends to be the next thing to logically try. I talked to my Deere dealer and the timing process doesn't seem to complicated to follow

 

[thepumpguysc]

NO, NOT complicated.. just a pain in the ars..
Come back & tell us "how un-complicated" it was.. lol
I wouldn't use Deere for an exchange pump for a DE pump.. they double & triple the cost from an independent fuel shop.. You can get 1 rebuilt between 6 & 900.00.. Deere probably want 1200.00??
I "used to do" them for my local JD Dealer.. he'd put'm on his shelf & sell'm for 1200.00 +.
HIS COST was 5-600.00..
It takes MANY special tools to do THAT pump.. MAKE SURE the shop KNOWS its a DE pump heading their way..
Good luck.

 

[NathanSkallerup]

Deere wants 2300 for a reman. I can get a brand new pump from my local diesel shop for around 1500, so I think I will go the brand new route, my local guy says they haven't always had the best luck rebuilding this style of pump. Not sure why. But I've worked with him before and trust his opinion. And that counts for a lot for sure

 

[NathanSkallerup]

pumpguy, do you know if you need the timing pins to correctly change the injection pump? I've been told by one person you absolutely need them, v and a different guy told me all I need is a little bolt and that will work just fine. I just don't want to mess anything up

 

[Delmer]

Don't be afraid of the hard plumbed supply line. You just need the correct fitting to go between it and the injection pump, and run a line to the cab with a pressure gauge, that seems like a reasonable thing to test before buying a new pump. If you need help identifying the threads, http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/thread_guide.pdf they probably have the fittings too.

I don't know if thepumpguy was saying he doesn't have the tools to do that pump or what, but I'd email to see if he's interested.

Also, TPG, is this a typical failure mode for this style of pump?

 

[thepumpguysc]

If its the inj. pump it will show a code AND they POP & SKIP at higher rpms..
I don't have the tools to do THAT PAUMP correctly..
A "reman" has the same warranty as a "new" pump.. & just because your guy isn't comfy doing them, doesn't mean others aren't.. I used to knock out 5 a month w/ no come-backs..
The pump & engine timing tools can be the back side of a drill bit.. the ROUND BITS, NOT the triangle, cut ones..
The FLYWHEEL hole will come up 2x.!!! the pump hole ONLY 1x.. SO, drop the pin in the PUMP FIRST & "check" the flywheel hole.. {not complicated, huh?}

 

[NathanSkallerup]

Thanks for the info. So far, here is what has been done to the machine.
1. Replaced injector pump
2. Replaced lift pump and thoroughly cleaned all fuel lines.
3 . Bypassed fuel cooler as there seemed to be some air getting into second fuel filter.
4. Checked tank for any debris, was perfectly clean
5. Had all injectors checked, all were fine.
6. Changed all fuel filters.
*Were not done in the order listed
Now, there still seems to be a very slight but of air in the final fuel filter housing when I crack the bleeder after the machine dies or I shut it off while it's acting up. The machine runs good for a few minutes after sitting still, then reverts to the lack of power to the point of killing the machine, but only while operating hydraulics. It doesn't matter which function, any and all Hydraulic movements cause the power loss. It does seem to be that the longer the machine sits still, the longer it will operate normally before wanting to die. I must add that it will run perfectly fine at any engine speed while no hydraulics are being used. Then you start moving things and it wants to die. Please help, I really can't afford to have this thing out at a dealer and pay them to take however long to figure it out. Worst case I would at least like to be able to point them in the right direction.

 

[terex herder]

Have you physically verified fuel pressure at the injection pump?

 

[NathanSkallerup]

Yes. I'm actually above spec. Running 11 psi coming into the injection pump

 

[Delmer]

Yes. I'm actually above spec. Running 11 psi coming into the injection pump

At full load while it's bogging down?

 

[NathanSkallerup]

Yes

 

[NathanSkallerup]

It drops to like 6-7 at lowest but that's when it's too the point is basically died because of bogging