2003 John Deere 320 wont start after new fluids

[Bmk320]

Hello, I have newly acquired a John Deere 320 skid steer. After purchasing it ran it for about 10 hours without any issues at all overall ran perfect. Previous owner said it was good for a few hundred more hours before it needed service but I wanted a clean start point. I ordered new primary and secondary air filters , hydraulic filter, hydraulic tank breather filter, engine oil filter, and fuel water separator which ended up being the wrong one. According to the manual the 320 calls for JD plus-50 II or CJ-4 equivalent for both engine and hydraulic fluid. I’ve been using Delo 400 for years in my other diesel equipment and it’s readily available near me so I went with 15w40 for both. Ok so fast forward I’m about about an hour into doing some yard work after the fluid change out and I notice while lifting the boom that it starts to loose power so I quickly lower it enough to where I can get out and shut it off. Recheck all of the work I’ve done for the second and third time. I noticed that maybe I overfilled the engine oil by a 1/2 quart. So I drained it down so it was well within the crosshatch lines. Ran it again for another 30 minutes and the same thing happened except this time it died on its own. No it will not start. It will turn over free but there is a loud whine coming from I think the hydraulic pump. When you crank it for ~15-20 seconds the whine will temporarily go on and off but still will not turn over. After a few times of cycling through attempting to start I gave up as I don’t want to do any more damage. Everything that I changed was done to spec in the owners manual and no obvious leaks. Now it’s giving me a F965 code. Serial number on the machine is T00320A106062.
I also have not charged the fuel filter and fuel water separator filter. The fuel filter is in the mail and this machine seems to have an aftermarket fuel water separator that I need to figure out.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Bmk320!

It will turn over free but there is a loud whine coming from I think the hydraulic pump.

Humor me. Is the the machine hands only controls? If so is the auxiliary foot pedal (right pedal) engaged (toe pressed) into detent? If so center the pedal and see if your noise goes away and if it starts.

I ordered new primary and secondary air filters , hydraulic filter, hydraulic tank breather filter, engine oil filter, and fuel water separator

Are all the filters Deere filters? Since you did not change the fuel filter, take it off and dump it into a clean container to see what's in there. How about the in-line filter from the tank, did that get changed? If not remove and dump it as well.

this machine seems to have an aftermarket fuel water separator

Post a picture of it please.

F965 is for the fuel level sensor - not your issue.

 

[Bmk320]

Humor me. Is the the machine hands only controls? If so is the auxiliary foot pedal (right pedal) engaged (toe pressed) into detent? If so center the pedal and see if your noise goes away and if it starts.

It is a hands only machine. The AUX hydraulic pedal has been in the locked position the entire time. I did mess with moving that prior and when you engage it it sounds much worse.



Are all the filters Deere filters? Since you did not change the fuel filter, take it off and dump it into a clean container to see what's in there. How about the in-line filter from the tank, did that get changed? If not remove and dump it as well.

The hydraulic filter is a Baldwin same as was on it previously. Oil filter and hydraulic breather are authentic JD. neither of the fuel filters have been changed. I have on order the inline filter. The main filter as I described is an aftermarket unit that uses a glass square with a filter inside hung in a vertical position. With a off shoot leaver that is spring activated. It currently has a Baldwin filter on it. I can get a picture it will not be until later today. I’ll see if I can find something online that looks like it.



Post a picture of it please.

F965 is for the fuel level sensor - not your issue.

 

[Bmk320]

The filter looks just like the one in the link. It’s oriented in a vertical position on the factory location with the factory mounts

https://www.amazon.com/GLASS-FILTER-Bobcat-Skidsteer-Loader/dp/B00TD995EG

 

[mg2361]

The filter looks just like the one in the link.

That is not the filter that machine is supposed to have. That filter was used on older JD equipment. Deere P/N AR50041. Below is what your machine would have come with. Lets get the fuel filters changed and go from there. Since the machine ran fine before the service I suspect it is the fuel filters or something else that was touched.

I would also recommend replacing the fitting (it also a check valve) item #4. They have been problematic and can cause hard starting issues. It is located at the right rear side of the block (left side of the machine). Access it from under the cab.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/62932/referrer/navigation/pgId/2407734

 

[Bmk320]

Thank you Mg2361 for your help so far. Does my particular setup have that fitting #4?
I just ordered the glass fuel filter from my local dealer yesterday. I should have both the fuel filter (in-line) and glass filter within the next few days. I’ve attached pictures of my set up below. Of note I DID press the spring activated leaver on the left that you can see in the second picture below when I removed the filter. Not sure what it does, you could hear a whoosh sound when depressed like a release of pressure?

 

[Bmk320]

Also I do have A Donaldson (re508202) fuel water separator filter that I originally ordered before I realized that I have the older style like you mentioned.

 

[Bmk320]

Update: ordered #4, inline fuel filter, and replacement AR50041 filter to try that first (since it worked prior) before I order the factory filter housing.

 

[DeereJohn]

I have the same machine, once you get the right filter on, with the hand pump on top, it can still be a pain to get the system bled.

 

[mg2361]

Does my particular setup have that fitting #4?

Yes, all 4024/5030 engines with mechanical injection have that fitting.

it can still be a pain to get the system bled.

If you pinch off the return line with hose pinching pliers it will bleed quite rapidly.

 

[Bmk320]

I feel like the JD owners manual is very sparse in general. Tells you to bleed the fuel system but not how. I also have this weird older fuel filter that I will need to figure out how to bleed once I get the new filter.

 

[mg2361]

Forgot to mention. If you pinch off the return line after hand bleeding just make sure to remove the pinch as soon as the engine starts (if it starts).

 

[Vetech63]

I am watching this thread with much enthusiasm!

 

[Bmk320]

Replaced fuel filters no luck. Couldn’t get the fuel/water separator to fill up and bleed even when I put handheld vacuum pump to it at ~25psi. So I bypassed it as show below in the pictures and it cranks slightly more but still is not getting fuel for some reason. I can heard the fuel solenoid check valve click and open. I’m wondering if somehow the mechanical pump failed. I feel like that’s a long shot. I also have a video of it trying to start but don’t have a way to upload it. It has some Intermittent black smoke when it cranks.

 

[Bmk320]

Hooked up clean container on the return line out of the block and it is filling up so in theory it is at least getting fuel now. I’m guessing there is air in the system.

 

[mg2361]

Try pinching the return line and cranking. See if it will start that way. If it starts either shut it off right away or remove the pinch right away. Don't let it run with the return pinched.

At this point I think you need to acquire gauges or someone who has them and check fuel pressure.

You could upload your video to YouTube and then attach it to this thread using the chain link in the toolbar above.

 

[Bmk320]

I’ve tried to pinch the return line just before it enters the tank with out luck. I also opted to go the OEM style filter to rule that out. Got it to bleed really well once but the following times it felt like the hand pump would create many very small foamy bubbles where I was just going around in circles for hours. I think my next move to is to get a small hand pump (bulb style) to prime the system and do an air leak test. I will probably also get a new low pressure pump which is about ~$111. Guy at the dealer seems to think that is the guilty item.

 

[ThreeCW]

Got it to bleed really well once but the following times it felt like the hand pump would create many very small foamy bubbles where I was just going around in circles for hours.

I experienced this problem with foamy diesel fuel when hand priming recently on my Cat 242B. It turn out to be a restriction in my fuel delivery system ... in my case it was an almost fully plugged fuel screen on my mechanical fuel pump. I suspect you may have a similar problem somewhere in your fuel system. Once I cleaned the fuel pump screen, I was back to pumping clear diesel again with the primer pump and my skid steer primed easily and started right up.

You can read about it here starting at post #19 in this thread:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cat-226-fuel-problem.78929/

I also compiled some general fuel system troubleshooting ideas here that may be worth reviewing:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/case-1845c-problem.82401/#post-882238

 

[Bmk320]

I was think the same thing. I will plan to take apart the low pressure pump. Also here is the video I uploaded to show the current starting status.

 

[Bmk320]

I would also recommend replacing the fitting (it also a check valve) item #4. They have been problematic and can cause hard starting issues. It is located at the right rear side of the block (left side of the machine). Access it from under the cab.


View attachment 217337

where exactly is that fitting? Is it inside of the 90 degree coupler going into the engine block? Or is it the 90 itself? If so is it the feed or return side. I’ve attached a picture that I think should correlate. Based upon this I’m guessing return side. Although my system does not have that tube that continues onto the back of the block beyond the “check valve”.

secondly I’ve been going over the schematics and the fuel system on this machine is very simple. I must be over looking some thing. As ThreeCW posted in another thread after I crank to start a few time and Remove the tank cap it does whoosh. So might have a vac problem there. I will try to start without tank cap.

does anyone happen to know if there is a mesh screen inside the transfer pump?

Once I can get another set of hands to help me I will check for air in the system following the procedure in the manual.
As shown below.