1991 CAT 416 purchase advise

[Pripyat]

I need a 4wd backhoe to use on 45 acres of land I'm building a house on. I need to work on some roadways, clean out some drainage ditches, clear some trees. The plan is to get the land the way I want it and then pick up a 30ish HP smaller frame tractor with a loader to maintain it.

I'm having a hard time finding a 4wd backhoe in decent condition for under 20K. I found a 1991 4wd cat 416 with around 3k hours. It is supposedly ready to go, with no major issues. I think the asking price is a little high at over $13K, these units don't seem to sell for nearly as much as the 555's or 580's. It looks rough on the exterior, has likely been sitting outdoors at least a decade. But, I can't find a 4wd unit for even close to my price range that appears in decent condition.

Is this a bad idea for a first backhoe? Can anyone suggest things to look for or check for? I'm supposed to be going to check it out in person tomorrow. Should I wait and get a different unit? My budget is 15K.

 

[crane operator]

1991 4wd cat 416 with around 3k hours.

Just to let you know- there's no way that's all it has for hours, unless it was owned by a municipality or utility company that didn't use it, at all. Most hour meters don't last. Its just under 30 years old, so that would be less than a hundred hours a year. Most backhoes in use, would average around a thousand hours a year, usually less hours per year the older they get. "minimal" use would be 100-500 hours a year.

A 4x4 backhoe in really good condition under 15k isn't going to be easy to find. All of them at that age and price point are going to need work. You may not do anything expensive, and it may drop a engine or transmission or shuttle, or all three, in the first three months you own it.

Go look at it and snap some pictures of it and post them up. Look at the condition of the bushings and pins on the hoe and the loader. If you don't really know what you're looking at, find someone that does and pay them $250 to go look at it with you. It may be the best $250 you spend.

 

[Pripyat]

I appreciate the reply. I'm taking someone that knows more than me but I'm not sure how much more. I've already decided to not pull the trigger tomorrow, I want to check it out and take some time to mull over it. I'll try to get some decent pics. This is all I have for now (off facebook).

That is interesting what you say about the hours. I was wondering why the hours varied so much between machines. I see 7000 hours units that look a lot better than this one.

 

[AzIron]

Hours are a relative number they mean things but not all machines can be compared on just hours

That's a seris 1 or 2 416 there were not that many made in that model compared to the deere or caseachines of the late 70s early 90s. Parts could be difficult to find but not impossible

Personally I hated that model and there twin boom rams cause you have to lean out to see around them they were not popular and that's why its priced that low

 

[Pripyat]

Well the guy quit responding to my messages yesterday evening. Based on the little research I've done so far, I'd be better off waiting and finding a JD, NH, Case, or Ford. I see JD310's for around 15-16k in 4wd every so often that look to be in decent shape. At minimum I believe parts availability would be less of an issue.

My biggest ordeal is transportation. I find great deals on equipment that is six hours away. I really need to get in contact with a trucking company and get some pricing.

 

[AzIron]

Cats b series would treat you pretty good as well but the 580s and 310s are just simple and easy to fix

 

[Nige]

A good suggestion from someone recently was to get to any equipment auctions that are local to you, look things over and get some thoughts, then go into the auction room and watch the bidding taking careful note of what things sell for. If you can get to even a couple it will give you a much better feel of selling prices and buyer interest (or not as the case may be) in certain models.

 

[Welder Dave]

I wonder if the hour meter has gone around once already if it still works. That machine has seen a lot of work and abuse. It's missing the grill and has been neglected. Might be hard to get $7500 for it. I'd look for something else.

 

[Pripyat]

Thanks for all the input. I have a lot of work to do at the new land. I really wanted to get a backhoe to do some major heavy work that can technically be put off until later. Now I'm doing a complete 180 and going ahead and getting the long-term maintenance machine to get the roadway gravel complete and to do the bush hogging and such. Looking at either a Mahindra 2538 in HST or a 2545 in Shuttle. They basically cost the same. Any thoughts? I really wanted HST but I think I'd rather have the extra HP..

 

[DMiller]

You may or may not be happy with that small a tractor, they handle a Mower pretty well at less than 50hp but brush hogging takes considerable power they will not have. I have a Allis 75hp tractor with loader and drag blade with a 8 foot Bush Hog Brush Hog and not really a finish mower, does OK in grass but better in brushy stuff up to 2" trees. HP is low for what I do with it but does as need where Brother In Law's 45hp Ford will not.
Be better off median HP larger tractor with a loader for basic work, 65-80hp FWA is good but if do not put yourself in spots not needed. Farm tractors are NOT loaders as a TLB or Track Loader or even a Wheel loader as these are structurally set up for rough digging farm units are loose material machines.

 

[Delmer]

If you want a backhoe under $15, I'd be looking for a 2wd. For that money, I'd rather have a working 2wd than a broke down 4wd. If it's too wet to use the loader then the 4wd isn't going to help enough to be worth it. If you can get a 2wd backhoe stuck that you can't get it out, then 4wd isn't going to help you any there either. Finding something cheap, good, close and NOW is not going to happen... I've seen some deals very close in the past, but not when I was in the market...

I agree entirely with DMiller, a medium HP farm tractor from the 70's -90's is what I'd be looking at. I'd guess the maintenance will be similar to a new Mahindra dollar and time wise. Now and 30 years from now also. Of course you're taking a bigger risk on judging the condition yourself of a used one, vs the warranty of a new one.

 

[Pripyat]

I've been borrowing my dad's Mahindra 1526. It's too small to pull my 6ft bush hog I inherited. But, it is fine for all the other work I've been doing with the roadways (moving dirt and gravel around, leveling/grading with loader or box blade.) I do wish it weighed more, though - I can't push much of anything due to traction issues. Also it does seem a little underpowered when I'm scooping a full bucket of soil.

I can't hardly imagine 45hp not being enough for my needs. I may need to pull the bush hog every so often but I expect most of the work I'll be doing will be with a larger finishing blade.

The comments about 4wd vs 2wd are noted - A lot of the work I want to do is on a slight decline, basically on the water table. I expect that any help would be beneficial. I got my truck stuck on my land a month or so ago, it took a 3 days to get a farmer out there to pull me out with his 100hp tractor. There's no telling how long the backhoe would be stuck before I could find someone to get me out. I want 4x4 but if it came down to it and I found a great deal on 2x4 I would jump on it and live with it.

 

[DMiller]

With a decent Tractor loader backhoe (TLB) should be able to remove one's own machine with the installed equipment. Learning to use one effectively can be a major boon than a bane. That said a TLB on site and get your truck stuck, two options, outrigger down and reach with hoe to strap to truck and drag out or physically attach snatch strap to the tractor and pull the truck free. I have gotten away from using chains or cables to pull trucks as they do not have any give where snatching straps of adequate length and density work far better. A 45 hp tractor is a decent all round mower but do not expect to brush hog very effectively. My tractor Allis 180 diesel if I can get it across a brush area the mower 3008 Bush Hog will eat it up, my BILs 45 hp 4 cyl Ford 661 diesel will not do that with a single gearbox 6 footer.
I do have a loader on my Allis, does fine with loose rock or cleaning a feed lot, digging a hole or excavations or moving larger solid objects I use an old 110hp Track Loader.

 

[Pripyat]

Went and looked at Mahindra's yesterday. Thinking seriously about getting a 2545 to do the driveways, bush hogging, and grading (I inherited a very heavy bush hog, a box blade, scraper blade, and a pull harrow). I looked at the 4550's but it is such a large machine and the one I'm looking at is gear. The 2545 is shuttle. I think the 2545 with ballast in the tires would be perfect for what I'm wanting. My dad's 1526 seems a little underpowered and way underweight for the power IMO.

I should probably just make another thread but anyone have comments on the 2545?

 

[AllDodge]

A bad thing about Mahindra is the power steering unit. Been several on the tractor forum about having to replace them. One guy is on his 3rd one and there is no kit to rebuild them. Not saying they cannot be rebuilt, but they fail a lot. A new one cost $1K

 

[DMiller]

Will stand by my earlier comment, either go all in and buy something of effectiveness or stay home where you started asking of less expensive backhoes then moved down to a light Mahindra. You expect someone on here to tell you will work and rave as to virtues of light weight machines, we have explained yes it WILL work just not effectually or efficiently or to the level you want to get to. A 45hp tractor is a oversized lawn mower, they will mow grass and weeds but will fail miserably to Brush Hog unless nibble at the edges over and over and over where will beat the snot out of the smaller machine. Will do some finish grade but will not be a great achievement machine. If looking at Farm sized machines may need to go to a Farm Site and ask more questions there.

 

[DMiller]

An effective Bush Hog machine and light grade worker. To get the work I am suspecting you want to do will take more than tire ballast. This tractor loader and bush hog weigh in at over 9500 lbs. Is also some light for some duties I have done with it.

 

[Pripyat]

Duly noted regarding tractor hp.

I'm all over the place, I know. I should have started another thread when I started talking about new machines. I didn't want to go into the details but this may explain my thought process -

I left out the fact that I specifically wanted a backhoe to clear a bunch of large trees and brush that is likely more appropriate for a full fledged excavator. That doesn't have to happen at all but it is an end goal. I wanted to do this before we built our house or during or shortly thereafter. But, it isn't a necessity. What is a necessity right now is that I get two driveways onto the property completed. The property is sand that has been farmed for the last 50 years. To get vehicles in and out we are having to put a clay base over top of the existing soil. This was going to cost a lot to contract out so I borrowed my dad's 1526 and made a small portion of road bed. The 1526 did fine spreading but it would have been nice to scoop more sand clay in each scoop. I also wish it weighed a little more for packing the sand clay down (driving over it). My dad's 1526 is a pain to move back and forth between our properties and I am getting the sense that he would rather me have my own tractor.

I don't need to do anything fast at all. I don't want something huge (4500 series) mainly for maneuverability and I want this tractor to be my go-to for grounds maintenance for the next 30 years. I basically need to run a 6 or 7 foot finishing mower or a bush hog slowly. I don't have anything huge to use the bush hog on, it is just the only cutting implement that I own personally.

My only concern about getting the 2545 for the forever tractor is weight/traction. The 1526 is useless for pushing on sand. Operating weight of the 1526 is 2459lb, the 2545 is 3285lb. I ran some ballasting calculations and can get 1078lbs with 75% filled tires on the 2545. That is 4363lbs total for the 2545, 1900lbs more than the 1526. By the time I throw an implement on the back I'm looking at twice the weight of the 1526. But is it enough? I'm not sure.. It isn't going to be like a backhoe pushing piles of dirt but it should surely be better than what I've been using.

 

[Delmer]

You're looking at the weight of an 8N Ford, which most people wouldn't consider using for much of anything these days. I've heard stories of plowing 80 acres with a little Ford as the only tractor, several kids took shifts and that tractor ran 24/7 till done, rebuilt her every year. Not many people like to work like that any more, especially when you can get a 100HP american made tractor for $5k...

Yes, you could probably build the road with a little tractor and loader. You could probably clear the trees too, we had a similar thread recently where the author was looking at similar options, I suggested his little Kubota could do everything he wanted to do, he'd just need to know how to do it smart, and not be in a hurry. I don't know how that turned out, I suspect he got tired of being told the same thing over and over even though he kept pleading with us to make it possible for him to buy a cheap, capable machine, HERE AND NOW.

I haven't commented much on the Mahindra, because I haven't seen them, heard good and bad... You could do MUCH worse than a new Mahindra if that's what you want.

 

[DMiller]

My avatar is my excavation and big tree manager;

23000 lbs of to be worked on every time I use it.

If you need excavation work do it right or expect it to take forever. If cannot afford the machines contract it out as will find it cost effective in the end result.