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1969 ford 4500 4 stick wain-roy backhoe conversion to 2 stick

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by ahrabovsky73, Jul 4, 2022.

  1. ahrabovsky73

    ahrabovsky73 New Member

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    Hey all, ive been searching and searching for any info on converting this to the modern 2 stick controls (like an excavator)

    i know basic hydraulics and how it works. My thought would be i would be able to buy two 4-way (left and right) hydraulic joy sticks and plumb them into the existing valve body, so it would work like : pull back on right stick would be plumbed into the boom up on valve body and so on. like left stick (swing) would be plumbed to the two swing vavles on valve body.

    Would this work you think? or would i need to change the valve body around to accept that type of controls?

    i am a operator for work and run cat controls and something about this 4 way i just cant get the hang of so looking for ideas to convert it to a standard modern 2 stick without breaking the bank on a full conversion or buying a new piece of equipment.

    thanks all would really appreciate any insight on this
     
  2. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    My dad and uncle (who was a member on here) did this with various bits and pieces to some multi lever controls years ago. I'll see if any of it still exists and if I can take a picture.
     
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  3. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    The difference in 2 and 4 stick backhoes is mechanical linkage, not hydraulic.

    The joysticks you are talking about are for pilot controls. This is a COMPLETELY different system. they use little hyd. cylinders on the valve bank to move each spool. On backhoes more a very few years old, there are no cylinders on the valve bank, the levers move the spools directly.
     
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  4. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    It's easier to do if the valve is mounted lower so adding more linkage won't raise the height of the handles as much. Plenty of utility tractor loaders have one handle to operate the loader and bucket, basically the handle pivots both ways to operate two linkages, easy enough to copy, if you have enough room. Much harder to make it neat and compact.
     
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  5. ahrabovsky73

    ahrabovsky73 New Member

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    so if i swapped the valve body to a style that used hydraulic pressure to actuate the spools, this type of stick would work? (not exact style i had in mind but its the jiffed of it)
    [​IMG]

    i basically want to redesign the entire control setup so im sitting on the backhoe attachment like i would sit in a excavator.
     
  6. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Welcome to HEF, ahrabovsky73,
    Do you happen to know which model backhoe you have on the 4500 ?
    750 or 753 ?
    Converting those models to hydraulic pilot controls is almost impossible.
    Does your tower and controls look like this image ?
    2022-07-04_134128.png
     
  7. ahrabovsky73

    ahrabovsky73 New Member

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    No it does not look like that. I have a wain-Roy model #14400 backhoe attachment. The controls go straight into a push pull valve body for each lever.
     

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  8. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Oh my goodness !
    Just my opinion, but you should look at buying a T/L/B with the style of controls you want.
     
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  9. ahrabovsky73

    ahrabovsky73 New Member

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    What is this T/L/B you speak of? Lol I’m new to these older equipments. This thing was given to me
     
  10. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Tractor loader backhoe.
    It is the correct name for the machine you have.
    Tractor with a Loader and a Backhoe.
     
  11. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Nothing says you CAN'T get two pilot joysticks like that and make it work, the backhoe will work fine with them. You'll probably end up using a new hydraulic pump, valve body, and joysticks. Plus a lot of time to make it all work. It will cost more than the machine will ever be worth if you count your time.
     
  12. berky

    berky Well-Known Member

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    It would work using the pilot joystick, but it would be so terribly slow that it would be frustrating. The lines to the joystick are much smaller than those on the spool allowing only about 15-20% of the usual flow.
     
  13. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I once replaced the valve bank on a John Deere 410 backhoe. Original joystick mechanism wouldn't work, dimensions were wrong. That's years ago. Nothing complicated about it. A series of pivots & levers. I used 1/4" thick angle steel & flat stock. Pivots were grade 8 bolts. I re used the clevises from the old.
    I'll guess the swing on yours is foot controlled?
     
  14. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    I built my own Multi function stick for a old two stick track loader. Never quite was adequate enough, looked at a later version tactor same make and same problems on the 'Engineered' design. Better off Newer Machine better option.
     
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  15. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    The first thing I noticed in the photo of the control valve is how short the rods are between the levers and valve.
    Perhaps rearranging the sections in the valve would partly solve his quest.
    Searching salvage yards for a used Ford backhoe seems to me a better option.
     
  16. 1466IH

    1466IH Senior Member

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  17. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    That's probably the best idea if you are determined to convert this thing to joysticks.
     
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  18. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I do not believe you need new valves. Your valve bank looks similar to 5 I have owned, all joystick. I wish I had a picture, but it is not complex. A stick tilts a plate in two axis's. on adjacent sides are protrusions to accept a clevis.
     
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  19. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    The problems with replacing the valve bank with 2 joysticks is first you need them to be rated for hyd. flow of the machine. They also need to be able to have multiple functions operate at the same time. I forget the terminology but not all valves allow for simultaneous functions. I have 2 levers on my Cat 931B backhoe (5G2150 backhoe). The linkage is right above the valve. If you look on AV Spares or another site with Cat parts diagrams you could copy the design for the linkage. I'm sure there are other machines with a similar set up you could copy.
     
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  20. Swetz

    Swetz Senior Member

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    Here are a couple of pics that show the style of linkage used on most units. This happens to be my New Holland, but most are similar.
    upload_2022-7-6_7-5-15.png
    upload_2022-7-6_7-7-21.png
     
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