1835C Which Engine TMD20 vs. V2203

[Rwhelan80]

Charge/ Equipment Pump Custom Mount Help

Ok, I am a little un sure of how to fabricate a pump mount for the loader and charge pump. I have included some pics of what I am working with. What I want to achieve is a factory look, and door. I need to get the pump balanced, centered, and as close to the pulley as possible, for engine door clearance. This pump is a step above the factory 1835c, this one was used on the 1845C. Same mount, better design, and coupler that is easily replaced. I believe they used the same loader control valve as the 1835c. I am needing this custom bracket to be removable, a bolt on. So the belt can be changed, and any failure is a bolt on replacement. And of course Reliability is key and of the most importance. Which was a factor in buying the new pump and coupler.

My Idea:
Cut crankshaft splines off close to the nut, yet not into the threads or taper. Weld, ring onto front pulley, with hole big enough in center to remove the balancer nut. Have four holes precisely drilled around the center for the four coupler bolts to install through.
Fabricate a 1/4" side plate on each side that mounts between the engine and mounts. This will conform with the factory mounting plate custom welded to the brackets off each side of the engine.
This would be removable and serviceable if needed.
Can I cut the crankshaft with a cut off wheel? or would it have to be removed and taken to a machine shop?
Should the balancer be rebalanced after the mounting of the coupler and plate? I am thinking anything less then balanced is going to greatly reduce the life of the pump and/or cause one heck of a vibration. Which would NOT be good.

Method 2:
Shorten spline and find some sort of adaptation coupler from the Kubota splines to the Case Pump splines?

Once this is coupled up properly, the rest should fall into place. I may be over thinking this as well. I am getting fired up about getting this baby going, shaping up to be a really nice machine.

Any suggestions or comments are always welcomed and appreciated.

 

[kshansen]

I'd have to look at the Kubota in our BobCat, looks similar to yours. But was wondering if this pulley is more or less "just a pulley" in other words not a balancer at all?

Other than the nut what mounts it to the crank? Is it Splined inside? Where am I heading? Well if it is a simple pulley with a key to the crank what about making a new one out of a steel **** with the holes drilled and taped into it for the Case coupler? This is just an idea without actually seeing the parts first hand.

 

[Lil' Puss]

Impressive work!

 

[Rwhelan80]

Update

Here is an update of where I am at with this machine. Not as far along as I would like to be, however I am putting a lot of thought into the placement and re assembly, maybe a little too much. I am about to begin the wiring. I have some really nice automotive style weatherproof connectors I am going with. This will ensure serviceability. The cab can be removed easily, with the electrical connections not being cut and spliced. Like a plug and play set up for every electrical function. I am also going with a 5 gauge set-up Volts, Oil Pressure, Water temp, Fuel, and Hydraulic Oil Temp. I am need of the wiring diagram, to see how the Charge psi light, filter light, and seat belt light work. If it is a ground signal that triggers the lights, when the corresponding switch closes? I would like to Have Lights for all of the fault functions, as the gauges have a warning light in them for the engine functions, I would like to keep some of the early warning lights. These will be housed in a custom panel which includes the 5 gauges (2"), Ignition Switch, Glow Plug Momentary switch, Horn Momentary, Work Lights, Back up alarm on/off, and interior light. along with 1 or 2 12v outlets for a strobe or phone charger or anything else 12v powered. Is this the right direction? I can always use the factory light/ system monitor. But that is not helpful as it is only warning lights, no actual readings of the functions.

I have to resort to an electric fan for cooling, as the Kubotas water pump pulley/ fan is off center and does not line up with the factory shroud. The electric fan will be a benefit, as it will give every little bit of horse power to the pumps. These parts, the fan and the electrical connectors and relays should be here today.

The equipment pump is right on the money with the factory location, I haven't installed the door yet, but it clears the radiator and that is a huge relief. I am waiting on a New Crank Pulley, as I found a newer model that will allow me to fabricate a round adapter to attach to the crank pulley, after tapping threads into the pulley. Then installing the splined adapter to this round crank adapter. Keeping all of this precisely centered to the crank, to ensure a vibration free operation. As the pump will be bolted to a custom fabricated steel mount to the engine block. This will be the most involved piece left in the fabrication.

The Exhaust doesn't look too bad to work. I am going to use the flex braided exhaust flange to start things off of the manifold. Then bolt the muffler to the old factory air cleaner location then pipe out the factory location, the door. The Intake will be pretty straight forward as well. This details mounting the air cleaner to the engine, provided a custom made mount. then piping right to the intake manifold. This will keep the factory 1835c air cleaner.

I have all new steel hydraulic line and flare fittings. As I get ready to tackle all new tilt cylinder lines and auxiliary hydraulic lines, I am unsure of what tool would work best for the bending of the 1/2" lines for the auxiliary? The smaller tilt one do not look too bad to do. Then the issue of flaring the ends? Any suggestions on a good flare tool that works with the steel lines? Any advice on or directions on these flare fitting would be great. And advice for bending them without kinking them, there are no tight angles, nothing over a 90 degree or anything like that.

All in all it is going together great, working with a clean machine is awesome as well. A lot of fit and re fit, and maybe a little second guessing. One thing is the outcome being a machine that is dependable yet easy to service and obtain parts for. Thanks for any input and advice, and all the great compliments.











Thanks Again

 

[Rwhelan80]

All New Drive Hydraulic Hoses

 

[Rwhelan80]

Getting There

Hey, Just a little update with some pictures of where I am at on this Case Project. Thank you for anyone who has been following, or taking an interest to this restoration.

First, I seen right away that my first version of the mounts were only templates to hold the engine in place. Yea.... This pump mount is a very critical part of the process. This New and Improved mount is what I came up with, I fabricated a mount off of the engine sides, Holes all ready there, and ever soo carefully centered everything up with a jig, and welded er up. (thats the short of it, pictures tell all, ) This looks good, however it has not been tested yet. Once all in place, I would rotate the engine maybe 60 degree increments and check the pump to make sure it was centered, by working it in and out. It works well and is very stout.

Everything else is moving along, I have all new Watertight, electrical connections. Like the automotive sensor style that snaps together with the rubbers keeping the water/ debris out. They look great and will make everything serviceable, from removing the rops, lights, back up alarm, horn, engine. I will have a more detailed update with the pictures of these connectors, relays, fuse block, gauges, contura lighted switches.

I replaced More hydraulic lines, the flexible lines on the boom for the tilt, boom lift cylinders, wow they are adding up. As is all of the other parts. However No expense has been spared. This machine is being built like a tank, with top of the line Hydraulic hoses and fittings, all new wiring, electrical watertight connections, alternator, equipment pump, seat, lights, Filters, Fluids, Battery, relays, gauges.

I am short probably one of the most important pieces, the Quick Attach. I see so many on the market, I also Need the pins for the arm to quick attach. I have 1840 arms on this machine, as they were nice, and straight, tight, and no cracks, welds, or repairs to them. I am probably going to have to get a blank Quick attach, and fabricate the mount. I would rather buy one ready to pin on. However all I can prob afford, is the blank where I fabricate a mount for it. As the mounts on the old coupler I have is from the 1835c and the pins are about 1/2"smaller in it. I can really use some input on where to get one, and or if somebody may have one for sale I can buy. Progress is moving along and I will be needing this sooner then later.

Thanks again for Viewing. And for any advice or pointers, or Help in location a quick attach coupler.

 

[Rwhelan80]

 

[kshansen]

Here is an update of where I am at with this machine

I have all new steel hydraulic line and flare fittings. As I get ready to tackle all new tilt cylinder lines and auxiliary hydraulic lines, I am unsure of what tool would work best for the bending of the 1/2" lines for the auxiliary? The smaller tilt one do not look too bad to do. Then the issue of flaring the ends? Any suggestions on a good flare tool that works with the steel lines? Any advice on or directions on these flare fitting would be great. And advice for bending them without kinking them, there are no tight angles, nothing over a 90 degree or anything like that.

Thanks Again

You must have a hose supplier that deals in Eaton Aeroquip products. Take a look at Eaton Aeroquip Steel Versil-Flare fittings. These allow you to connect steel tubing to 37º JIC fitting with out the need to flare the tubing. I have used these when replacing lines on our 1845 C with goood success. As to the bending wish yu were near by as I have just the tool you need to bend the 1/2 inch lines. It is just a larger version of the benders used for brake lines. Takes a little work to get the bends right when there are 90º at each end but can be done. The last ones I made was the jumper from the left to the right of the boom for the tilt cylinders and it looks factory.

This is close to the one I have:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RI...cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1

 

[Rwhelan80]

Hydraulic Fittings

Thanks kshansen,
Here is what I have, I heard something about some fittings you could use without flaring. I prob should have looked into it better. I have a Ridgid 377, 37Degree HD Flare tool on the way. Hoping it shows up today. I have bought the 1/2" bender from the net, for only $40 to my door, we will see how it does. It was sold as a 1/2" steel hydraulic line bender, only. However the 5/8" steel line will not fit. Those are for the Auxiliary lines. They only have 2 or 3 bends per line. I will figure out something. The Build Budget is about Exhausted.

These steel lines and fittings, are the Exact fittings and line you would find on a New CAT Machine. I am a little surprised I could not find a source for these steel lines, pre made and ready to install. For the Aux. and Tilt. May bee I was looking in the wrong places, but one would think If I made up a couple of sets of these and placed them on a popular auction site, there just might be some demand for them? About 80% of the older case machines I see the steel lines are all rat nested up, welded on, or bent.

Thanks again kshansen, and if I was a lot closer to you , I probably could learn a lot from you and your experience. People worth learning from are far and few in between anymore. It seems any more all that maters is deception, short cuts, and passing the buck to someone else.

 

[Rwhelan80]

Gauge / Operator Panel

Here is a Gauge Panel that I fabricated up. Has Fuel, Water Temp. Oil Pressure, Volts, & Hydraulic Temperature Gauges. Warning Lights for the Glow Indicator, Air Filter Service, Hydraulic Filter Service, & Hydraulic Temp Warning. Switches are for Horn, Work Light Front, Work Light Rear, Interior Light, & Back Up Alarm on/off (Sometimes you just don't want to listen to it). Push Button for Glow Plugs, and New Hour Meter. All connections are soldered and heat shrink wrapped. Connections from cab are all connectors, for easy removal of cab. Wires are protected in 3/4" Heater Hose running down to fuse panel by battery. I plan on getting some vinyl lettering made, Indicating gauge and switch functions, as well as the warning light functions.

Gauge Cluster mounts in factory location. I will have some better pictures of the connectors and wiring system, and more details. Putting the cab on now.

Thanks, Rob

 

[Lil' Puss]

Thanks kshansen,
Here is what I have, I heard something about some fittings you could use without flaring. I prob should have looked into it better. I have a Ridgid 377, 37Degree HD Flare tool on the way. Hoping it shows up today. I have bought the 1/2" bender from the net, for only $40 to my door, we will see how it does. It was sold as a 1/2" steel hydraulic line bender, only. However the 5/8" steel line will not fit. Those are for the Auxiliary lines. They only have 2 or 3 bends per line. I will figure out something. The Build Budget is about Exhausted.

These steel lines and fittings, are the Exact fittings and line you would find on a New CAT Machine. I am a little surprised I could not find a source for these steel lines, pre made and ready to install. For the Aux. and Tilt. May bee I was looking in the wrong places, but one would think If I made up a couple of sets of these and placed them on a popular auction site, there just might be some demand for them? About 80% of the older case machines I see the steel lines are all rat nested up, welded on, or bent.

Thanks again kshansen, and if I was a lot closer to you , I probably could learn a lot from you and your experience. People worth learning from are far and few in between anymore. It seems any more all that maters is deception, short cuts, and passing the buck to someone else.

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View attachment 107227

I have a set of those tubing benters up to 5/8" and have used them with copper and heavy wall aluminum tubing. I don't think they will fare well at all with steel hydraulic tubing, IMHO.
This is more like what you need.

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/product_p/70065.htm

 

[Rwhelan80]

Yea, Lil' Puss, I was thinking the same thing, in a way... I did buy them, haha. You do get what you pay for. I paid $40 to my door, these are the 1/2" Only model. ( I probably shouldn't expect much) I tested on an old 1/2"steel line, they worked all right, didnt strain the tool or anything. I doubt they would do the 5/8" in a way that I am looking for. They need to look/ work like new. As for the 1/2" they may surprise us all? I will have an update soon with the outcome of the hard hydraulic lines. Good or Bad. The Flaring tool I ordered was on Back Order, should be in by the end of the week.

Thanks, Rob

 

[Rwhelan80]

Runs Like A Champ

Here are some pics, and an update of the machine. Still have a long ways to go. The electrical went really well. The gauges, look great, and the fuel gauge is accurate. I was worried about the gauges being hard to see in the daylight, but there is no problem at all seeing them. What is nice also is the Red Led warning light in the gauges. As seen in the pics, the oil pressure warning is on, with engine off. I used all weather tight quick connect connectors, enabling the cab to move forward for service. The V2203 Direct Inject Kubota is amazing. This engine fired right off. I mean with just the bump of the key, Engine is On. So far so good, great oil pressure no vibrations, no smoke, and no leaks. Drive functions great. As seen in the pics the boom is not on yet, I am working on that now. I have most of the electrical done, I installed all new wiring, and completely custom made the harness, then encased in protective covering. All of this with serviceability in mind. It is in the factory location, I just added a centralized relay and fuse panel, with the battery. Every electrical connection that was permanent has been soldered and Shrink Wrapped, any others are in weather tight connectors. All built to handle vibration. I will be fabricating the steel hydraulic lines next, so hopefully the next update will have the machine ready to Work. I will be posting a Video of the Engine starting and machine running soon.

Thanks

 

[Rwhelan80]

 

[Rwhelan80]

 

[mitch504]

Looks good, it has been fascinating watching you build this machine. I am very interested in the steel lines.

 

[alrman]

I've have an interest here as well, that dash 'looks the goods'.
Does the fuel gauge use original sender unit? Need more info re your work.

 

[Rwhelan80]

Thanks

Mitch504 Thanks, this has been quite the project. I would love to find another one to do, or even two at once. These machines are great to work on, and parts are available. I know I can drastically cut the build time down, just knowing what I am in for on the next one. The Steel Lines are next. Should turn out great. I am still looking for a good Quick Attach Coupler to install, but I should find one this week, and get it on its way here to install. Just haven't decided on which one I want. Thats when the true test of the machine will come in, once it can be put to work.

Alrman, Thanks. Yes that is the factory 1835C fuel sending unit. I checked the sending unit with an ohms meter to determine, that Empty is 240 ohm, and Full is 33 ohm. Which would make it the AMC/ SW fuel Gauge. I do wish I could have found the digital one that matched, but Some gauges look best Analog. I put 4 gallons of Diesel in the 20 gallon tank, which put it right above the E. and it has ran for an hour, now it is a little below the E. Nice to know there is a little time once the gauge hits E (no reason to be run that low though). As for the other gauges, I used the included sending unit. The oil pressure and water temperature fit right into the v2203 with out any modifications. As did the volt gauge, haha. I could not find an oil temp in Fahrenheit, that matched these. So I used a water temp gauge, and put a T- off of the Factory Hydraulic Temperature switch, for the Temp sender for the gauge. The Warning light is nice, however some might want to know the Actual Temperature of the system. The Panel includes 4 warning lights, The first Red being, Glow Plug Indicator. Second, Yellow, Air Filter Warning Light, Third Yellow Hydraulic Filter Warning Light. and fourth, Red, Hydraulic Temperature Light. Switches, are 1st, Front Work Light, 2nd, Rear Work Light, 3rd, Interior/Dome Light, 4th, Back Up Alarm Override. The hydro and air filter warning switches, are the factory 1835c ones. The lights are amazing. As for the wiring, it is encased in 3/4" Heater hose from the Operators Panel to the Electrical Center. I do not want no chaffing or shorts, from vibration. Brand New Case Ignition Switch. But at the same time, the wiring is ran to be moved out of the way to slide the cab forward, or even to pull the engine. With out disturbing the wiring or Hacking it up.

I cant wait to post a video of it. I might do one before the arms go on. Not sure yet.
Thanks, Rob

Feel Free to PM me or shoot me a message, tileman80@gmail.com

 

[kshansen]

I cant wait to post a video of it. I might do one before the arms go on. Not sure yet.
Thanks, Rob

Feel Free to PM me or shoot me a message, tileman80@gmail.com

One word of caution be very careful if you try to move this skidsteer with the arms off it will be very light in the front. Even moving with arms on but bucket or other attachment off front end will lift very easy! I had a 743 Bobcat to work on last year and with the arms off it would not sit on all four wheels even without moving it.

 

[jastone502]

on the same machine

Here is a couple pics of some parts that were just prepped and painted. Moving right along. Working on throttle control now, as the Kubota has the injector pump on the opposite side as the TMD20. No big deal, a rod linkage similar to the controls to transfer the movement to the other side. Looking forward to re assembly. Best part, all new bolts and washers, lol.
View attachment 95331
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Sure could use any help with information , I am working on the same exact model machine, TD engine , no compression, guessing it dropped a valve. I have a V2203 so it is game on !!!!