13 ton v 7 ton with tiltrotator?

[mxridernrth]

Thanks Eddiebackblade! Victoria's not a bad place to call home but we do lack the history that makes the UK such great place. My British father-in-law goes on about it all the time. Makes you wonder why he left? He's actually there right now, as a matter of fact. I do like it there myself - except for the killer exchange rate. I don't suppose that the next time I'm there I could persuade you take me out for a pint rather than a cup of tea could I?:drinkup

I'm actually planning on purchasing a spider excavator early in the new year and hope to make a go of it. Certainly a niche market so I'm crossing my fingers. The machine I'm looking at comes with a Helac, so we'll see how well it holds up. I'm also planning on immediately purchasing a roto grapple for the machine as I plan on doing a fair bit of rock work. It'd be nice to be able to run both implements at the same time, however the torsion is hard on the boom and stick pivots.

 

[Naomhan]

ZaxisMac, they are a great tool in the right hands. Personally I love using them but we were also running a hire company alongside our construction company which meant the machines were going to inexperienced drivers who were constantly breaking pipes and complaining about them because they could not use them. All breakages have been due to operator error.
I would echo Eddie’s sentiments that no rubber-duck should be without one. Until you use the forks and the grab you cannot comprehend how useful the tilt-rotator is. Unfortunately not all site managers and foremen can see how much savings a machine with this tool can make in terms of reduced machine hire and reduced personnel.
I will say that I find that on the smaller machines the weight of the unit is too much for them and also the width will cause problems. But on the right job they could well become indispensible.
To sum up, they are only as good as the man using it and to unlock the full potential requires a good driver.
Anyway you can keep my email address in case you need it in the future as the units have been sitting unused for a while so I could still very well have them.
Best of luck when you get your Hitachi and I think you are making the right choice going for a 13T over a 6T.

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Mxridernrth, any man who is talking of buying a 'Spider Hoe' is welcome to have a few pints with me.:beerchug

Have a dig about on her to find Brian Hay, he runs one already with I believe a Helac powertilt and their very useful looking jaw bucket.
I think it's a Kaiser unit, but I could be wrong however.
One thing is certain he seems to know how to handle it and is somewhere in your teritory.

I have finally got my Engcon selector grab fully functioning, and the facility to 'Tilt' the grab appears extremely useful.
I am very pleased how the Kubota is handling all this weight, with a very respectable capacity still retained despite 2 quick hitches, Tiltrotator, Integral Grab and the Selector grab hanging off the end!
No stability problems with the big pads on though!

I doubt any 'Spider' unit will worry about a bit of weight on the end as they are massively strong to take all the forces exerted during walking/climbing etc.

Glad to hear of you planning to have a go at a niche, as I can fully relate to that and I wish you every success.

It should be me moaning about the Exchange rate as it's boom time for you at the moment. I'm over to Whistler in January and we'll certainly have to watch it compared with other years.

Finally I tried to ignore the jibe about the UK and Europe, all I can say is with the latest Treaty finally in place then Yes we finally are definately 'IN'.
However if anyone had bothered to ask the UK public then who knows?:beatsme
Too late now though and no politics allowed on here.

 

[ZaxisMac]

I'll keep that in mind Naomhan, and I'll be sure to get in touch with you when I'm go to get a tiltrotator. You mention the tiltrotator is too wide for smaller machines, by that do you mean when you are digging a deep trench when the rotator is wider than the bucket? Do you find there is any other applications that the tiltrotator is not suited to? Also can you tell me what set up you found most useful (e.g. direct or QH mounted, engcon buckets etc)

Eddie, I have tried getting prices for hiring a machine with a tiltrotator but I can't find any nearby companies that actually have them! As for the tilt bucket I know that the company I used to work for used to charge an extra £2.50 an hour when the bucket was used (company I work for now has no tilt bucket). If I get the choice I would definately prefer to go for a zero swing machine - Zaxis 135 or New Holland E135sr. For a conventional swing machine I would go for Hitachi, Cat, Volvo or Komatsu. (Hitachi top of the list of course!!)

 

[mxridernrth]

Hey Eddie thanks for the heads up on Brian Hay. He's only a few hours from where I live and I've been meaning to head up and chat with him but alas, this has been one busy spring, summer, and fall.

I spent some time checking out videos on the Engcon units and they do seem to be pretty sweet. I wouldn't dare ask the price of a complete setup. Though perhaps one day, if everything goes well, I can entertain the thought of adding one to the setup. Perhaps you can post a video of your machine in action now that you've got everything working?

Have a great time skiing in Whistler! I grew up on those mountains. Fond memories... Give me shout if you're heading to the Island and I'll buy you that pint.

ZAxisMac - Good luck and keep us posted on your decisions.

 

[cps]

Found Info on this unit!

I found some info on this unit made by kinshofer-aponox, personally i like the build set-up, and the general compactness of it!

I'm not talking anything away from engcon or any tilt rotator manufacturer, as i have no experience of any type of tilt rotator!

The kinshofer-aponox has no tilt rams, it uses a hydraulic device inside to tilt it, this would leave it easier to dig trenches up aganist walls etc.

Il let you all see for yourself

 

[Eddiebackblade]

I too have seen this unit CPS and I was extremely impressed.:thumbsup

Kinshofer have an excellent reputation for their products such as clamshell buckets and brick grabs utilised on lorry loader cranes.

I think this unit with it's worm drives similar to a Helac Powetilt, represents a major advancement in tiltrotators and a much needed general tidy up of the concept.
However in my very short and limited experience and the feedback from everyone who has managed to blag a go in the Kubota, it's the proportional controls and joysticks coupled to a professional installation that really make the difference.

I would be interested to see which UK company has a go at distributing this unit or if a manufacturer takes it under licence.
Whatever i'd like a closer look at one and given their other products would expect to see some quality.

Just a note to Zaxismac, and the fact that he couldn't find anyone around him with a tiltrotator to find out what they charge!
I would take that as a great situation to be in and an open opportunity for someone to take the plunge.
Oliver at JCC will fill you in with companies running units up there, and is usually aware of machines coming onto the market already kitted out with an Engcon.
I never posted pics but actually turned down an as new 150hour CAT 312cl with a direct mount Engcon to buy the Kubota, it was a little over £40,000 and great value if I was heading that direction.
Just demonstrates what can come up if you dig around hard enough.

 

[Harry Hopper]

Tilt Rotators

Hi Guys
Just started reading this forum and I am finding it great. you might want to look at this. www.contractjournal.com/blogs/digger-blog/2009/11/steelwrist_launch_in_the_uk.html#more
This is the next generation of tilt rotators, I have been working in sweden for the past 4 months and this is all they are talking about. the guys i was working
with reckon it is miles ahead of the others. anyway i am getting back to my reading.

Harry

 

[ZTS Plant]

Hi ZaxisMac,

I run a few machines here in Scotland all zero tail swing and all with tiltrotators, what area are you in? I hope you understand I don't want to give my competition a heads upon my rates. I read in your previous post you spoke to JCC, these guys just sold my last JZ70 machine and wanted the Engcon with it. They may have offered you it to you, where you there customer?
On the dilema of tiltrotator or no tiltrotator, alls I can say is anyone can dig a hole but to do the fancy jobs you need to look ahead and at the better paid work!
Good Luck!!

 

[ZaxisMac]

Hi ZTS

Don't worry, I pretty sure I won't be in competition with you, I'm based up in the north west, and I have yet to see a company running tiltrotators up here! I only got prices from JCC, they told me about a few used tiltrotators they have in stock but they didn't mention any used machines.

At the moment I'm going to look out for a 13t machine (preferably zero swing) and get it set up for a tilt bucket and get the tiltrotator next year. Thanks to everyone for the links to the other manufacturers, I have been in touch with Kinshofer and Steelwrist and hopefully will have a rough idea of prices next week.

Eddie, do you know if that 312 is still for sale? I doubt it because it was a cracking deal!!

 

[ZTS Plant]

I looked at the Kinshoffer unit a few months back and ask the salesmen where would go to see one working. Correct me if i'm wrong, but they didn't have one in the UK they could show me! I looked at the price to repair the tilt unit and it was about £3500 if it went wrong and to replace two rams on a tiltrotator is about £700 - £800. The initial cost of the Kinshoffer was about 20% more than an Engcon. If something goes wrong with my tiltrotators I like to try to fix the thing before I call anyone in, but in the Kinshoffer everything is sealed in the top of the unit. Hard to get to.
Steelwrist looks like a good machine, but you must consider service on kit like this!:IMO:my2c
I am based near Inverness are you close by?

 

[ZaxisMac]

I have you sent you a PM ZTS

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Zaxismac the 312cl is long gone I believe, however I had it from a good source that it came direct out of a large CAT dealer for around £36,000 and was truly as new. I would of chearfully paid over 40,000 for it.
I was absolutely torn between buying it or going with the Kubota, and the simple fact of the size of an LGP converted 312 was simply too big for my intended market.
Stupid thing was I had a CAT 311c on hire for over 3 months straight after I chose the Kubota!

 

[cps]

Found this Kobelco Sk135 on Mascus

It's for sale in france for £22,250 has a Engcon EC15 10500 Hrs, Year 2000 80% undercarrage, You may not be intersted but i thought i'd post it let you see whats out there!

 

[Deep Digger USA]

Anyone can dig a hole

Hey ZTS,
You are right about the dilema of tiltrotator VS no tiltrotator, I had heard about tiltrotators for a couple of years but never had seen one up-close here in the US. I always assumed i'd be able to get the same amount of work done with or without it. My buddy out in the Salt Lake City, UT area told me he attended an engcon tiltrotator demonstartion put on by a local dealer, he showed me some video footage and I was amazed! Being able to dig in and around vertical object all while keeping the excavator stationary, trenching is virtually no effort at all, and all the jobs you can perform with the grab are awesome. I spoke to an engcon dealer here in Southern California and I think they have a demostration coming up some time soon, I will definitely be attending.

Demo Footage from Salt Lake:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DigProUSA

Hi ZaxisMac,

I run a few machines here in Scotland all zero tail swing and all with tiltrotators, what area are you in? I hope you understand I don't want to give my competition a heads upon my rates. I read in your previous post you spoke to JCC, these guys just sold my last JZ70 machine and wanted the Engcon with it. They may have offered you it to you, where you there customer?
On the dilema of tiltrotator or no tiltrotator, alls I can say is anyone can dig a hole but to do the fancy jobs you need to look ahead and at the better paid work!
Good Luck!!

 

[cps]

Hi ZaxisMac, Hows things,

Did you ever make the jump and go it alone yet?

 

[ZaxisMac]

Hi cps

I've been away from the forum for a while, sorry for the late reply! I haven't yet got a machine, work is a bit slow up here just now - almost everyone is on 4 day weeks at the moment. It shouldn't be too long though, there is quite a few big jobs going to come off in a few months, so I'm aiming for around april/may.

I've been making a few enquiries though and I've spoken to Steelwrist and I must admit that I feel that they seem to have the edge on Engcon. It is slightly more expensive but from what I've been told I think you get a lot more for your money. Unless Engcon make some changes to bring their tiltrotator in line with the Steelwrist product I'll be going to steelwrist for a tiltrotator when I get one fitted.

 

[nixs]

Take a good look at all aspects of the Engcon or the Steelwrist. Engcon have superior proportional valves and they have upgraded their product for a different line up of machines. They outperforms Steelwrist in terms of building height, weight and build quality.