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10 ton trailers

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by tbaero153, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Hello everyone.
    New to this forum but love the structure and all the great info everyone posts on the site.
    That being said, I have a question. Currently move my skid steer and mini ex on a cam superline tilt.
    Love the trailer but would like to move both at same time to same job. I have a Kenworth T300 single axle dump
    with 300 hp cat and 10 speed. Air to the rear, No exhaust brake, although was considering installing one. What do you
    think my best bet for a trailer would be. Hoe is a takeuchi tb153 , 13000lb and skid is bobcat s175, approx 5700lb.
    Thank you for your help
     
  2. Tags

    Tags Senior Member

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    My advice would be to skip the 10 ton and get right into a 20 ton, that way you will certainly not overload it with the equipment you have now and it allows you to upgrade to heavier machines (someday) without upgrading the trailer. It's also nice to have in case you need to rent a piece of equipment that's heavier than 10 tons, that way you control when the machine shows up and gets returned. I have a 20 ton trailer that I pull with a ten wheeler and an 8 ton trailer I pull with my 550 that allows me to get into tighter jobs that the ten wheeler and 20 ton don't fit into.
     
  3. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Tags, thank you for your response as it is very appreciated. I did consider the bigger trailer but was looking to keep my costs down. The yearly registration and insurance costs are double on the 20 ton. Also was considering buying new since I can not seem to find a quality used trailer in excellent condition nearby, and new 20 tons are way above my price range. I don't plan on expanding the excavation part of the business in the fore see-able future. I have access to great subs who handle my heavy dirt work and we concentrate on the smaller projects. I fully agree with you on the rental aspect when it comes to convenience of schedule. I looked at eager beaver, towmaster, interstate and felling and am looking for feed back, good and bad on any of them. Or am I leaving out something that i should be looking at? Thanks again
     
  4. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Welcome to the Forums tbaero153!:cool2

    I agree about getting a larger trailer than 10 tons, although I wouldn't pull 20 tons behind a single axle however the extra capacity above 10 tons will probably come in handy. What I would consider though is the extra weight of a 20 ton over a 10 ton. There are also 12 and 15 ton trailers to consider.

    Whatever trailer you go with get air brakes since you have air to the rear. Hydraulic ramps are also a very nice convenience.

    I have a Betterbuilt 22.5 ton tag and it's been a good trailer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
  5. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    What kind of work do you do?
     
  6. monster76

    monster76 Senior Member

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    Get the biggest trailer you can afford and definitely get air brakes it makes such a difference over electric ita incredible
     
  7. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Thank you for the response cm1995. I will also look at 12 tons. Again trying to keep my costs as low as possible. I agree with the 20 ton behind my truck, I don't believe it makes enough power to make it worthwhile. We specialize in concrete work, with some demolition involved. Always need to remove fill or rubble and import clean materials. Any brands better than others in your opinion? Thanks
     
  8. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Thanks monster. I was looking at electric brake trailers in the beginning due to lesser cost but after talking with other contractors and reading the posts online I realize that it is night and day difference from electric to air. The cost new for air is an average $2900 cost increase. To me the increased resale value, safety and maintenance make that decision a no brainier.
     
  9. monster76

    monster76 Senior Member

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    20150404_173402.jpg

    I jumped to a 20 ton from a 10 and honestly it was well worth the extra cost Imo and it feels good to have enough trailer to pull more than just a backhoe at times. as far as brand goes i have real good luck with eager beaver
     
  10. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    What is the price difference from a 10T to a 20T. I know there comes a time when a guy wants to keep costs down, but I would venture a guess that a 10-15T trailer with air brakes might as well be a "give away" in ten yrs. Guys that are pulling a trailer with air brakes are more than likely looking to haul 160's and the like. My recommendation, I'm sorry to say, is spend the extra $5000 now, and it will be worth it if you ever want to sell it. Also, in regards to your comment about your truck. I pulled a 25T pintle hook or a pup around for 10 yrs with an L10 and 8LL. Always around 80,000 hauling machinery and grossed 90,000+ pulling the pup. Your Clatter-pillar would do just fine at 64,000. :my2c
     
  11. monster76

    monster76 Senior Member

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    In your state you pay tag based on trailer wieght also? down here insurance and tags cost are based on the truck not on trailers. we get a permanent trailer tag it cost 125 one time. My insurance pretty much asked me to value my trailer thats it
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  12. Canadian_digger

    Canadian_digger Senior Member

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    I have both towmaster and eager beaver 10 ton tag. I would go with the towmaster. I have had to do a compleat rebuild of the suspension on the eager beaver. Changed springs, equalizer front spring brackets all bushings. Bad design in my opinion. I have never done anything on the towmaster suspension. My only complaint on the towmaster are the small springs for the flip over ramps tend to break and need replacing.
     
  13. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Yes monster, this state is terrible for the small contactor. We pay yearly for the truck reg fee as well as the trailers based on weight. On top of that you pay yearly for property tax on each also.
     
  14. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Thank you canadian, I was pricing both and the tow master comes up $ 1600 less than the same spec'd eager beaver.
    Still waiting to hear back on the interstate, but I think they are all competitive in the same class. Just looking for others opinion on the various brands, and all input is helpful.
     
  15. ericscher

    ericscher Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly new at this stuff, but I have figured out a few things already.


    Trailers, Equipment, Trucks, Drivers and Jobs don't exist in their own little vacuums. Everything relates back to everything else.


    For instance, it's easy to say "get the biggest trailer you can afford", which is often good advice, but what if the nature of the work a person does is such that he doesn't have or need that much excess capacity?


    In the original poster's description we're looking at 19,000 pounds. 10 Tons of capacity would cover it, although we really should remember the weight of the trailer itself, which is likely to be 6,000 or more, for a loaded total weight of 25,000 pounds. A 13 ton trailer would cover that, although it would likely add more than the 6,000lb weight I mentioned so really a 15 Ton trailer would be more appropriate.

    This is where the notion of buying a 20T trailer comes in, but is 10,000 pounds of extra capacity really needed?


    I mean, we're talking about a TB153 and an S175, but are there plans to buy newer and bigger machines in the next few years? What if you do? Wouldn't you also keep the smaller equipment to handle the smaller jobs?

    A lockback knife cannot do the work of a machete, nor can a machete do what a lockback can do.

    What about growth plans? Is it going to be just one guy doing bigger and bigger stuff, which argues for a larger trailer now if you need one anyway. But if the plan is to ADD business, not merely change it, and you're adding more people, does that imply the need for more trailers of various sizes to haul a stable of equipment to different locations?


    And what can the drivers do?

    If the boss has a CDL A and can use a road tractor to pull whatever trailer he needs to, that's great. But what about new employees? If you need to hire one, a CDL A drier is going to be more expensive than someone who can drive a 10,000lb truck and a 14,000lb trailer.



    All of that boils down to one question... What does the big picture look like over the next "X" number of years?"


    I don't know if that's helpful to you tbaero, but hopefully it is.
     
  16. ericscher

    ericscher Well-Known Member

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    I just went through the trailer shopping deal and I ended up having PJ build me what I wanted. It wasn't cheap, but I spec'd it out to fit a specific set of needs.

    I'm pretty happy with it.
     
  17. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    Thanks for your reply ericsher, As stated originally we sub all our heavy dirt work and trucking out as needed. There are no immediate plans in the future to expand the scope of the
    excavation, demolition work that we perform. We run the smaller 6 wheel dump for our convenience and the smaller equipment to access the extremely tight job access we encounter on
    75% of the work we do. Our focus is on performing all aspects of concrete construction. I totally agree that if our focus was on excavation then I would surely be looking at bigger trucks and hence the most trailer to haul larger iron. In the last 15 years we always upgrade our skidsteer and mini's to newer models but never needed to go up size. Although lately we are
    considering moving into a ctl and then that coupled with a 13K mini does increase our payload capacity needs. We very fortunate around here to have many rental houses that offer any
    size machine needed, big or small and when the need arises, we'll rent and factor the cost as well as mobilization into each job. You are correct I plan on hauling approx.19000 lbs, but if the trailer is 5500- 6000 lbs empty, as all in this class average why look at bigger. Thanks
     
  18. ericscher

    ericscher Well-Known Member

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    Right, but the point I was hoping to make was that if your needs seem to be stable, even projecting out several years into the future; that means that you have less of a reason to purchase excess capacity that is too far beyond your needs.

    Certainly a 15 ton trailer would be wise and would give you 20% excess capacity, which is good from both safety and usage standpoints.

    A 20 ton trailer would give you 60% excess capacity. Do you need/want that much?

    That's up to you of course, but I do think it's worth consideration; especially considering the very real cost that Connecticutt imposes on you for doing so.
     
  19. tbaero153

    tbaero153 Member

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    I'm sorry ericsher, but maybe I'm confused. 10 ton trailer carries 20000 lb and weighs 5500 = 25500 lbs. 15 ton trailer carries 30000 lbs and weighs 7000 lbs. = 37000 lbs.
    Going to a 15 ton trailer I up my payload capacity 50% ? Or am I missing something here? I think maybe i am not understanding the load transfer to the axles of the tow unit?
    Again thank you for your help, I really do appreciate it.
     
  20. ericscher

    ericscher Well-Known Member

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    The weight of trailers varies, but the GVWR always includes the trailer's weight.

    When I said that a 10 ton trailer weighs 6,000 pounds, that's an approximate. As you go up in capacity they have to add more metal so that's more weight.
    1 10 ton trailer is 20,000 pounds, so if we subtract the guesstimated 6,000 pounds that leaves 14,000 for equipment.

    (Note: This weight stuff is actually more complex because you have to consider axle capacities and how much weight the trailer off-loads onto the tow vehicle; usually 10%-ish for bumper pull and 20-25% for GN/5th-wheel)

    You've got a 19,000 pound load to carry, plus the weight of the trailer, which of course is likely to be more than 6,000 pounds, but it's NOT likely to be less. That's 25,000 pounds or 12.5 tons.

    If you got a 13 ton trailer you'd likely be right at the trailer's capacity, if not over.

    If you got a 15 ton or 30,000 pound trailer, then subtracted 19,000 pounds that would leave 11,000. I don't know what it would weigh, but you would most likely have at least a ton, if not two, as excess capacity for a safety margin. That's assuming a weight of 7,000-9,000 pounds.


    On my prior post I was kind of casual with the numbers because I wanted them to come out evenly and make the concept easy to see.


    If I can rephrase a bit...

    I think it's always wise to use your equipment BELOW it's maximum capacity, not right at the edge. Many people agree with that notion, although of course some don't.

    I'm suggesting that you buy the capacity you NEED, with a little extra for a safety/wear margin, but that beyond that point it becomes wise to ask what the extra capacity you are paying for will do for you. For some folks in your situation it's smart to go to a 20T trailer. For others a 15T. For you...? That depends on what you need now and in the future, but it SOUNDS like you don't need a 20T.


    I apologize if I have done a poor job of communicating what I was thinking.