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Designing an excavator rake for cedar brush

LCA078

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
292
Location
Austin, TX
I keep making a mess when clearing cedar with my Cat 325B excavator. I have a smooth lip bucket and a hydraulic thumb that does a decent job but I end up scooping too much dirt in order to get the bucket to curl up and get a good grab on the cedar when closed up on the thumb. Probably more operator error then equipment issue but I also want to be able to up clean up leftover roots better so the bucket is definitely not ideal. I can do a lot better with a rake but not sure if a typical 60-70" wide 5-tine rake is what I need. A local fab shop said they'll make anything I'll put on paper (it's a buddy's shop so I'm not expecting to get hosed on pricing too much) so figured I'll try to design a narrow 3-tine rake that meshes within my thumb teeth when closed. This should give me a good bite and be able to rip/pluck the typical Texas hill country brush without disturbing a lot of dirt.

I also started a thread a while back to extend the range of motion with my hydraulic thumb to help give you more background on what my current set up looks like. I plan to fab the progressive link pieces at the same fab shop. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/extending-range-of-motion-on-hydraulic-thumb.87151/

Attached are my thoughts on what a cedar-plucker rake should look like. Really need help on determining type and thickness of the steel plate. Anyone have suggestions to design it better? Think it'll work (or not)?
 

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  • Rake design.pdf
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treemuncher

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Dec 31, 2006
Messages
733
Location
West TN
Occupation
eatin' trees, poopin' chips
I've got a Mann 5 tine rake for my PC200 that meshes with a Mann 4 tine hydraulic thumb. I would guess that the rake is close to 42" wide but I'm not able to measure it at this time. It works great for conventional slash & burn clearing. I'm guessing that it might be 1.25" wide plate structure. It's bulletproof with the 200. Anything that fits between the tines can be forced over, bent around a tine and then rip the stump out of the ground. It's one of my favorite old school tools.

I've also used it for a lot of demo work - easy to separate 2x4's from tin sheets and stack all products as required with that combo. I also have a 5 tooth bucket that works well with the thumb.

I think that the smooth lip bucket will be your biggest downfall with grabbing too much dirt. Get a bucket with teeth or get a rake for easier, cleaner results.
 

LCA078

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
292
Location
Austin, TX
Thanks, Treemuncher- all that helps. I was mentally stuck on a 3 tine version but I now understand where I can add two more tines for about a 40" wide rake that straddles my thumb when closed. Making it a 5 tiner would add probably 2/3's more costs so just need to decide if I want a precision rake (3 tine) or narrow conventional (5 tine).

1.25" is about the lightest I'd go and it would have to be fairly durable material (AR400 or such) instead of standard rolled. I'll ask the fab shop if they recommend 1.25" AR or maybe 1.5" standard structural. I have no idea what's better for cutting, welding for them. I prefer AR-type steel but no need to overbuild it. Not a lot of 'digging', just mainly surface scraping and pulling so maybe structural plate is fine.
 

skyking1

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Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
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washington
What about coming up with a decent deal on a toothy bucket with some brand new tiger teeth on it? I know that doing anything with a smooth edge you're going to get dirt.
 

Tones

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Ubique
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Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
Using a root rake to clean up small scrub and limbs can be problematic so thinking outside the square what about getting a rear mounted scarifier off a grader and modifying it to fit your digger. That way you'll have the scarifier tines for the small stuff or swap them for the ripper tines doing the roots. If it's to wide for what you want then cut it to size an also may save some fabrication costs.
A lot of landclearing contractors here use a stickrake the they hold in the grab while using it. When they get a fair amount they drop the rake then use the grap to move the heap. The beauty of it there's no climbing onor off the digger and the rake can be tilted to follow the land conture.
 
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treemuncher

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
733
Location
West TN
Occupation
eatin' trees, poopin' chips
What about coming up with a decent deal on a toothy bucket with some brand new tiger teeth on it? I know that doing anything with a smooth edge you're going to get dirt.
A set of Tiger Teeth allow me to rip and shear through wood quite easily. Trees can be sectioned with ease with the correct application of force with a sharp set of teeth. After I mulch large stumps to grade level, I can use Tigers to set a fault line across the stump and then split out "pieces of pie" for a faster, cleaner extraction with less dirt on the remains. Works better than pulling out large stump balls and the pieces are easily mulched if desired.

As for the steel, T-1 is usually strong enough with enough spring back without going to an AR series of steel. Structural steel A-36 will yield (bend) at 36,000 psi. If I remember correctly, T-1 is around 100,000 psi yield strength.
 

skyking1

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Yes I was thinking the set of tigers on a tooth bucket that meshed well with his thumb would clean up his act a whole bunch. I know a purpose-built rake is nice, but I like having a bucket so that I can do other destructive things. As long as I've got teeth I can make do.
 

treemuncher

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Dec 31, 2006
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733
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West TN
Occupation
eatin' trees, poopin' chips
I know a purpose-built rake is nice, but I like having a bucket so that I can do other destructive things.

Non-hydraulic change over from bucket to rake or to ripper is generally 5-10 seconds with my quick coupler. Change overs with hydraulics are considerably longer with hose hook ups - I can't justify the fancy instant hydraulic hook ups. Best thing I ever put on the PC200 was that quick coupler.

Fastest basements were always dug with ripper then bail with bucket and repeat. Bury the ripper to the hilt throughout the extents, plug the ripper into the ground and change out to the bucket.

Buckets are great for general purpose but a good rake is hard to beat for clearing out a lot of trees. The ability to delimb stems and fold tree wads into preferred shapes saved me lots of time. And for demolition, rake/thumb is hard to beat for sorting & managing debris. Even though I rarely use them any more, those tools will ever remain with my machine while I own it.
 

NepeanGC

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Mar 18, 2017
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203
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Ottawa, Ontario
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#dirtherder
I've got twin tiger teeth on my 30" tooth bucket and really like it for cleaning up roots and stuff.
For stumping I use my ripper, which has a regular tiger tooth.

With a bit of practice I've found I can grab pretty small roots and junk, and leave the dirt behind.

Also, hydraulic quick couplers are the bees knees. Can't imagine doing it old school.
 

LCA078

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Sep 29, 2019
Messages
292
Location
Austin, TX
What about coming up with a decent deal on a toothy bucket with some brand new tiger teeth on it? .

Yes I was thinking the set of tigers on a tooth bucket that meshed well with his thumb would clean up his act a whole bunch. .

Yes, I'd really like to add a narrow toothy bucket to the machine but just haven't found one that negates a custom built rake. For what I'd pay for a bucket with shipping, I think I can almost get that rake built...but only a quote will tell me. But now you got me thinking if I just add teeth to my smooth-lip so they line up with my thumb, it may work. Hmm...need to think about that one for a bit.

Non-hydraulic change over from bucket to rake or to ripper is generally 5-10 seconds with my quick coupler. Change overs with hydraulics are considerably longer with hose hook ups - I can't justify the fancy instant hydraulic hook ups. Best thing I ever put on the PC200 was that quick coupler.

Also, hydraulic quick couplers are the bees knees. Can't imagine doing it old school.
I have an older JB Hendrix hydraulic coupler which makes life simple. The coupler and the heavy duty hydraulic thumb are the two main reasons I wanted this machine. I don't know if I'd ever want a digger without them for the type of work I do.
 
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skyking1

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I wouldn't mangle your perfectly good cleanup bucket with teeth if you can avoid that. I've just never operated without both a dig and a cleanup bucket.
For a 325, I'd have a 4 ft bucket on there with teeth that went on the outside of each of the thumb tines. Maybe your thumb is narrower than the ones I'm used to and then you'd get a 3-ft bucket that would do that so if you have a four-tine thumb get a five tooth bucket. Anything I would do it would go outside of the thumb not inside like you were saying in the OP. Wider is better on the fixed part than on the thumb. Sure a little three-tine rake would have some ripping power for tearing out roots but it narrows up cleanup operation. I do about 90% of my work just raking with the bucket and then the last 10% involves the thumb.
 

LCA078

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Messages
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Location
Austin, TX
I wouldn't mangle your perfectly good cleanup bucket with teeth if you can avoid that.

Yeah, was hoping to keep the smooth bucket smooth. It's not really a thin wall cleanup bucket but a 42" wide digger without teeth. The previous owner of the machine used the hoe for railroad derailment clean up. Not used much for digging and such but really for a lot of picking up things, transferring material, and a smoothing out areas. It's kinda cool as it has a custom built rack for holding chains and cables. The hoe was also outfitted with gas-axe (blue wrench) tanks on board...not your usual construction digger set-up. I tossed on a couple pics for the heck of it.

Thumb is 30" wide with 4 teeth ~10" apart. Just haven't found a c-linkage bucket with teeth already spaced accordingly...thus the logic to build a rake.

Anything I would do it would go outside of the thumb not inside like you were saying in the OP. Wider is better on the fixed part than on the thumb. Sure a little three-tine rake would have some ripping power for tearing out roots but it narrows up cleanup operation. I do about 90% of my work just raking with the bucket and then the last 10% involves the thumb.

I agree a wider bucket/rake compared to the thumb is generally better but that's where I was thinking of the middle ground between a ripper and a full-size rake. Most of the cedar I can grab at the base and rip it out with a bit of rocking. The bigger one I'll need to slice the roots left and right before pulling. My cedar doesn't have a big tap root, just a bunch of laterals that allow it to be yanked like a weed. I don't think a typical 65-70" rake is good for me as I may put too much twisting force if I hook the end on a stubborn root/stump. But to your point, a custom 5 tine rake that straddles my thumb would only be 40" wide which is twice as wide as the 3 tine. But overall still not too wide.

I like the input on everything- way more experience out there than me... Keep it coming!

Maybe you can get bolt on shanks for the teeth if you don't need the teeth all the time.
I haven't seen bolt on shanks so please send an example if you have one. On the flip side, I can imagine cutting out some slip-on teeth and spacing them as needed on the bucket's smooth lip (it's almost 2" thick!). The slip-ons would be something like a very beefed up tooth holder that's bolted down instead of welded. Maybe that's what you mean by bolt-on shanks?

I like the idea and you got me thinking...
 

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Welder Dave

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Oct 11, 2014
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12,260
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Canada
Would have to check if bolt on aftermarket are available. I know Cat had bolt on adaptors on a lot of track loaders. Something like 955 adaptors with the long teeth could work.
 

skyking1

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Nov 3, 2020
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Location
washington
it is funny how buckets come available. Right now you see nothing looking around that fits your needs. As soon as you commission the rake, the perfect 5 tooth bucket will show up nearby!
I am finishing up repairs on my 4', and sure as heck a 5' cleanup bucket that has the exact fit is just down the road for 1500. It would be a little heavy on the 120 and I would have to mind the loading of it, but I may still sell the boss on the idea. Having the 5' for grading would be the bomb.
 
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