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Question about purchasing heavy equipment

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
771
Location
kent, wa
If a person that is retired is thinking about purchasing a machine of some sort. Just curious what are the risks of a loss of dollars on the 40 plus to 50 year old high priced stuff out there? Not knowing for sure where the economy is heading as well as regulations against older diesel engines, and then of course all the mechanical problems and old machine that age can have. I'm just worried the day may come a rule is made that to use that old tractor or what ever they will make you retrofit a tesla electric motor and battery pack that all costs as much as an almost new machine. Looking for some thought on it.
I just don't want to end up with thousands of dollars of over priced scrap metal.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
sometimes to live you have to dream and take a risk. I think that the older the iron, the less likely that
A) you are going to do production work with it.
B) any authority is going to view it as a production piece that needs to meet regulation.
If you yearn for some old iron, get it.
 

cuttin edge

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,692
Location
NB Canada
Occupation
Finish grader operator
One thing I have found, on here, and at work. If you are going to own the machine, you gotta be ready to spend some serious cash for repairs. There was a post on here not long ago about a $3000 forward reverse switch on a case loader. He found internal parts on line, and was going to attempt the repair of the switch, but what if a customer was waiting? Cash bolt on vs a couple weeks wait for overseas parts that might not work. Bushings for my Volvo grader, 300 each for 2. wiper motor on one machine $1800. Not saying don't make a leap, but have lots of cash in the bank for that repair that hopefully will never come.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
Looking at the OP, nobody buys a 40~50 year old machine to do production work. Waiting is the name of the game and doing your own work, being very handy or having very handy friends.
 

Sberry

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
395
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Occupation
Farmer
Shop, dont buy the first one you see. Do what you want the way you want but not sure I would be interested in tossing retirement into equipment unless you have a fistful more than you need. Cheap enough and enough biz sense a guy could come out ok if he has something lined up but this is a foreward looking biz, often takes a long time to recapitalize unless there is some expertise hidden in here,,, in that case a guy probably not asking beginner questions on a forum.
 

John C.

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Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Forty plus year old machine means pre 1980. What makes you think you have any chance at all making any money on something that old? Emissions regulations started in 1996. That was twenty five years ago and no engines have been produced for any machines that are Tier 0 which is pre 1996. All were required to be destroyed if turned in for core. The best that could happen is someone may have parts to rebuild that dinosaur engine. If you want a toy or a yard ornament then OK. Going into business requires a minimum amount of capital. It is a hurdle that weeds out the pretenders and shows other businesses your commitment. A company using a forty year old machine to dig a ditch is showing others that it is likely they may not survive long enough to complete their first job.
 

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
771
Location
kent, wa
"All were required to be destroyed if turned in for core." I still see lots of ad's for rebuilt D353's, D342's and such? And I think there are still some D399's and smaller powering boats and gensets? And all demanding pretty top dollar for the rebuilds. So was that at the Cat dealerships that they had to destroy them? I'm not looking for a full time business deal just a niche part time deal.
 

AzIron

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
1,541
Location
Az
We run some 30 year old iron I have some 25 year old iron that works 2 to 3 days a week if you are going to push old iron for a biz you have to have your own backup machines your own parts inventory and be able to do the lions share of the wrenching and then it can actually be fairly lucrative if you have 4 of the same thing and parts for all of it bit it takes a hefty sum of money to get there
 

John C.

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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
You can rebuild nearly anything so far. You just can't manufacture things like engine blocks, heads and crankshafts if the engine can't be made to meet current emissions regulations. In any case things are changing and you can't be sure that there won't be some edict come down that says all diesel engines must meet a spec or they can't be used. Ten to fifteen year old stuff is fine for the time being. But it costs more than scrap value.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
IMO anything older then about 25 years isn't good for anyone trying to make money with it. Older stuff is ok for a acreage or farm for someone who doesn't need to get anything done in a hurry, and is very mechanically inclined and doesn't value their time really highly, or someone who's had the thing forever and it keeps going without issue then it makes sense to keep it. It's not easy to find but there are still good used equipment that won't break the bank, even 15-20 years old most companies won't touch so prices are decent and it's still modern enough to do decent production and not new enough to have a bunch of emissions or electronics on it.
 

zhkent

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
294
Location
Kansas
Occupation
Earthmoving
I am not knowledgeable on the emissions and rules of older equipment.
Aside from that my opinion is don't buy anything you're not prepared to rebuild.
Are you going to run it enough to justify the expense of fixing it if it breaks?
 

Sberry

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
395
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Occupation
Farmer
Not everything has to be rebuilt. If its working might be fine as long as the guy needs it. Does this really sound like something gonna have 2 shifts every day on it?
 

Shimmy1

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
4,260
Location
North Dakota
IMO anything older then about 25 years isn't good for anyone trying to make money with it.
Completely and totally disagree. I could write a novel on machines that are beyond that age, and still better than anything made today. Now, if you had said 40 years old, I can accept that, even though I'm sure there are more D7Gs still working that some want to admit.
 

cuttin edge

Senior Member
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Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,692
Location
NB Canada
Occupation
Finish grader operator
Completely and totally disagree. I could write a novel on machines that are beyond that age, and still better than anything made today. Now, if you had said 40 years old, I can accept that, even though I'm sure there are more D7Gs still working that some want to admit.
We had a G, worked every day. Replaced it with an RXL. Can't do half the work the 7 did.
 

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
771
Location
kent, wa
Gosh even the old manual transmission clutch lever dozers like a 2U are priced at crazy prices, makes no sense, one of those sure is not going out on a city or county job site.
I guess its that gold dust in the paint jobs that are the reason.
 

Bluox

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
1,960
Location
WA state
Completely and totally disagree. I could write a novel on machines that are beyond that age, and still better than anything made today. Now, if you had said 40 years old, I can accept that, even though I'm sure there are more D7Gs still working that some want to admit.
The 7G is a bad example as of at least 2008 Cat was still building them .The military used these into the 2000's and surplused them out and alot of those had the Armory rebuilds like new machines.
Although parts are out there rebuild prices are about the same as newer tractors.
Bob
 
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