Should I take on this project? 50s Cat D4

Lumberjack Matt · Jun 10, 2021

Bluox said:
This is about par with blackberry rescue tractors .
Bob

My first ever project when I was 14 years old, I talked my dad into letting me buy a clapped out 1947 Willys Jeep. No tools, everything rusted, a complete nightmare. This is easy compared to that piece of junk, and I ended up getting that thing running.

Vetech63 · Jun 10, 2021

Lumberjack Matt said:
Sorry, had 2 solid weeks of in-laws visiting, and the weather has been rough.

I pulled the valve lifters off the side and a few lifters were stuck and the valve train is covered in surface rust. Also looks like the rods and non-machined surfaces of crank are covered in surface rust. Judging by the rust pattern on top of the head, its clear that water was getting into the engine through the valve cover studs (the seals were toasted). Surface rust also might be due to long term exposure to sulfuric acid from diesel? Not sure.

Once I took the lifters out of the block, the engine rotates about 180 degrees now. So I am suspecting rust buildup in the cylinders is the final (of several) culprit. I'll confirm that when I pull the head. I have all the bolts off the head but it's pretty stuck so I need to get a big prybar on it.

Trying to decide now if I want to clean up the rust as best as I can with the engine still in it, or should just bite the bullet and pull the engine, disassemble and clean up. I am going to have to pull the radiator to get the cam out to clean it up, so it might be just best to pull the entire engine. It would also nice to be work on the engine in a clean shop instead of next to a blackberry bush outside. I guess I will decide when I get the head off. When I get to this point in a project, I like to take a few days off to think about it before I do anything drastic.

There is definitely going to be pitting on the surfaces of the lifters/cam/etc due to the rust build up. Not sure I want to replace all that stuff though, Hoping I can just clean it up as best I can and smooth it back out and go from there.

Some of these pictures are pretty bad, might be considered NSFL. Don' look at them if you have just eaten. Just about every non-machined surface is covered.
View attachment 240468 View attachment 240469 View attachment 240470 View attachment 240471

YIKES! I mean...... DOUBLE YIKES!!!!

Sam1734 · Jun 10, 2021

Matt, I'm not convinced you will have to pull the engine. It's obvious water has gotten into the crankcase, however its possible to do a in-frame overhaul. I think the most concerning to me was the heavy rust at the bottom of the push rods, I have seen worse. As long as there is movement, there is hope.

Vetech63 · Jun 10, 2021

Man. I wish I had the faith that some of you do.

DMiller · Jun 10, 2021

Pull it and get on with teardown
All that surface rust comes loose is as good as gravel for destroying your fresh internals if inframe it .

56wrench · Jun 11, 2021

the only thing i would try before engine removal would be to pull all the inspection plates and use a solvent suction/spray gun and spray solvent inside with the drain plug out to see if it will remove any of the rusty loose stuff. but, i would never be that lucky. with that much rust inside, maybe there was an internal coolant/water leak before it was parked. i am suspecting it may have been run with straight water in the cooling system because of an internal leak. but, then again, i am a pessimist and expecting the worst but hoping for the best

Sam1734 · Jun 11, 2021

One reason I said in frame was because I've seen in past especially with a machine with cover or hood off, many old gaskets will break down and allow the elements to intrude. I personally had a issue with pressure washing my D6 and come to find out, a lot of my gaskets were allowing the water to get inside. I didn't have the rust but I also caught it before it got to that point. ALWAYS check fluids....LOL! But I totally agree with 56wrench on this one. I think he said what I was trying to say.

catman13 · Jun 12, 2021

if you are going to do it, pull the engine out and do it right , you may have more issues with crank

Lumberjack Matt · Jun 12, 2021

Thanks for the kind words all. You guys are right of course, the engine needs to come out. I already knew this, just had to give myself time to come to that conclusion.

I cleaned a few lifers and push rods up last night, and the rust is very consistent with typical rust caused by humidity on bare metal here in the PNW. It looks bad and pits on rough surfaces, but cleans up pretty good on smoothed machine surfaces. I haven't seen anything that isn't salvageable yet. Have had no stuck or corroded fasteners anywhere on this machine, which is a very nice change of pace from my usual projects.

Hopefully it's not too much work to get the engine out. I know I'll need to drop the skid plate and pull out the roll bar. I'm guessing I'll also have to remove the blade so I can get the radiator and hydraulic pump off. The upside is once it's all off, it'll be hopefully light enough to roll it the tractor to a nicer work spot.

Lumberjack Matt · Jun 15, 2021

Finally have some more time to work on this thing. Got the roll bar pulled off this evening, and the results of it hitting the ground as it rolled off were somewhat surprising. I have a video of it happening, I'll put it up later, but here is the aftermath.

I do believe my old friend Bubba has worked on this dozer at some point, when he welded this roll bar back together. I'm always glad when he works on the safety portion of my vehicles.

It also appears he put in this nice oil cooler bypass, for performance reasons I'm sure.

Can't wait to start tearing into this engine!

Sam1734 · Jun 15, 2021

Dang, you know Bubba too!?
That son of of gun gets around all over the country!!!

DMiller · Jun 16, 2021

Not a ROPS, only a brush cage. Rollover Protection has to have engineering documentation these would never make the cut.

DMiller · Jun 16, 2021

Spent close to ten years working on and around my old Fat Allis, ended as spent nearly a full winter going thru all I knew to be bad and sold it.

emmett518 · Jun 16, 2021

Bluox said:
And the money pit opens wider.
Bob

Just remember something.

Although the ultimate goal is a working dozer, you're also getting huge value out of the learning, troubleshooting, and fixing process. Those activities create new neural pathways in the brain, and keep your mental health stable. It also might keep you from developing Alzheimers later in life.

Old Magnet · Jun 16, 2021

It's pretty common to bypass the oil cooler which was eliminated on later models anyway. There are neater ways of accomplishing the bypass.

Bluox · Jun 16, 2021

emmett518 said:
Just remember something.

Although the ultimate goal is a working dozer, you're also getting huge value out of the learning, troubleshooting, and fixing process. Those activities create new neural pathways in the brain, and keep your mental health stable. It also might keep you from developing Alzheimers later in life.

I've been doing this for 50 years Ace and I do know what a money pit looks like.
I would bet most homeowners who take on these projects have early stage Alzheimer's already.
Bob

Welder Dave · Jun 17, 2021

Different people different opinions. No need to be condescending. Some live for bringing old machines back to life.

Lumberjack Matt · Jun 23, 2021

Well it was on ordeal, but I managed to get into my shop. Much more civilized to work on it here, close to all the tools.

I got the head off, and it actually doesn't look bad. I am guessing the issue with it not fully turning is under the pistons somewhere. There really isn't any rust above the pistons, it's very minimal.

The water jackets could use some cleaning though

If you have some time to waste, here is how I got it into my shop.

Bluox said:
I've been doing this for 50 years Ace and I do know what a money pit looks like.
I would bet most homeowners who take on these projects have early stage Alzheimer's already.
Bob

You are 100% right, I can't argue with that. At the end of the day after my initial purchase plus parts, I'll probably be right in the monetary range of buying a functional crawler somewhere else. I'm having a good time though, and we are talking a few thousand dollars, small potatoes to be honest. I'm doing this for fun and some eventual work around my property, not because I'm doing jobs somewhere for extra cash. Hell, I've never even ridden or sat in a dozer before, I work in an office for my day job.

Sam1734 · Jun 24, 2021

Matt, I seen the video and man that poor Kubota was grunting….lol

DMiller · Jun 24, 2021

Now is the time to see if will rotate freely if not then are other issues

Should I take on this project? 50s Cat D4

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