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What causes this??

Spud_Monkey

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Sep 15, 2018
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Your six
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Sucking in trash i.e. dirt sand looks like and bad bearings in second picture but I don't see any scrapings unless the bearings finally seized it up and just coated the wheel with soot from the exhaust hiding where it was hitting on turbine housing.
 

Aarons81

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Jan 1, 2021
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Central Ohio
Obviously the inducer side is just dirty air filters and a dirty work environment, but the blades don't show alot of wear. That exducer side I would chaulk up to bearings at first, but there's no corresponding damage to the housing or inlet side blades. I guessing its getting over heated, and over speeded somehow.. Looks to be nongated...
 

Aarons81

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Is there any damage to the exduer housing to suggest pieces are getting thrown into it? Like chunks missing , or just deep gouges?
 

JPV

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Aug 20, 2015
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756
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S.W. Washington
The best indication of a bad air filter is the dimple in the center of the shaft on the cold side. That one might appear to have a little stuff in there. Usually the first indication of a dusted engine is lots of blue smoke from broke rings.
 

Aarons81

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typically don't see soot on compressor side, but on the exhaust side we are not seeing the leading edge of the blades in correlation with airflow. Ill bet they look beat to hell.
 

Spud_Monkey

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I say lets clean it and take pictures of it and compare the two pictures will tell more of the story. Looks like something hit hard on the bottom blade on the intake side.
 
Last edited:

Spud_Monkey

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typically don't see soot on compressor side, but on the exhaust side we are not seeing the leading edge of the blades in correlation with airflow. Ill bet they look beat to hell.
That's cause the seals on the bearings are blown and going through the other side.
 

Shimmy1

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Aug 14, 2014
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North Dakota
Engine doesn't smoke, no blow-by. Sounds like it has plenty of compression when cranking over. I would suspect that the tiny bit of soot on the compressor wheel is from the trashed muffler, since it has an aspirator. I didn't check with a dial indicator, but I can't feel any discernable movement of the turbine wheel or compressor wheel. I wiped the edges of the housing around the turbine wheel, I cannot see any wear or scuff marks, so I don't believe the damage came from contact with the housing.
 

Shimmy1

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North Dakota
So, is it plausible that since this is a very early 3196, original turbo, that it could be a faulty turbo from new? I'm just trying to see something other than a dusted engine hopefully...
 

skata

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May 10, 2007
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midwest
What exactly is wrong? I must be blind.
The soot may be from crankcase recirculation?
 

d9gdon

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Feb 12, 2010
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central texas
I'd say that it's damage from a previous turbo failure and whoever replaced this turbo didn't get all of the pieces of the original debris out of either the intercooler or the plumbing...engine sucks in the debris and spits it out into the exhaust.

I had a Mack E6-350 that did that one time.
 

John C.

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Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I'm thinking the top photo is the hot side and the bottom is the cold side? Only thing I can bring to mind at this moment is the amount of soot on the housing in the bottom photo. I'm thinking the cooled exhaust gas recirculation system blowing soot and maybe coolant into the intake side. Maybe a leaking cooler. My other thought is diesel leaking into the crankcase from a bad pressure pump and diesel vapor being sucked into intake. Maybe those fumes caught on fire in the intake manifold? The damage on the impeller points to overspeed from a run away engine. The damage on the turbine points to carbon being expelled from the firing chambers due to the overspeed.
I'm thinking that the manifolds need to come off looking for more evidence. I don't know if this is an electronic engine but if so a review of the operating history prior to the failure needs to be done. Oil sample should be taken before any other work is started.
 
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Shimmy1

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I'm thinking the top photo is the hot side and the bottom is the cold side? Only thing I can bring to mind at this moment is the amount of soot on the housing in the bottom photo. I'm thinking the cooled exhaust gas recirculation system blowing soot and maybe coolant into the intake side. Maybe a leaking cooler. My other thought is diesel leaking into the crankcase from a bad pressure pump and diesel vapor being sucked into intake. Maybe those fumes caught on fire in the intake manifold? The damage on the impeller points to overspeed from a run away engine. The damage on the turbine points to carbon being expelled from the firing chambers due to the overspeed.
I'm thinking that the manifolds need to come off looking for more evidence. I don't know if this is an electronic engine but if so a review of the operating history prior to the failure needs to be done. Oil sample should be taken before any other work is started.
Top pic is cold (intake) bottom pic is exhaust. Caterpillar 3196, no EGR. Oil sample looked fine, but hardly any hours on the oil since I hadn't put the tractor in service yet. It was an auction purchase, from a farm retirement sale. Owner had the tractor for the last 3500 hours, very light work.
 

Shimmy1

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Aug 14, 2014
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Location
North Dakota
I have pulled all the intake piping, it is all perfectly clean. Like I can wipe it with white paper towels and there is nothing on it. I believe the turbo to be original. My other tractor had the turbo replaced before I got it, so I am leaning towards believing that the original turbos on these engines were suspect.
 
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