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Overload of the Day

Truck Shop

Truck Shop

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Thanks SK.
I was visiting my brother on Mercer Is in early 80's and he had a retired Dr. associate take us up in his float plane on Lake Washington. He was a pretty experienced
pilot. Flew B17 in WWII and never stopped piloting after. Anyway a boat that was traveling south decided to cut across in front of us on take off. There was room but
it was a large boat leaving one hell of a wake. We were almost to lift when we hit the first roller. All I can say is the pilot was not happy.
 
skyking1

skyking1

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digger242j said:
I asked Mrs. Digger (retired ATC), and her initial response was "Whoever ATC has given the clearance to, if it's in controlled airspace." She couldn't quite recall the specifics foe uncontrolled airspace, and I think that bugged her, enough that she had to go look it up:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.115#:~:text=(a) General.,any rule of this section.
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§ 91.115 Right-of-way rules: Water operations.

(a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the water shall, insofar as possible, keep clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation, and shall give way to any vessel or other aircraft that is given the right-of-way by any rule of this section.

(b) Crossing. When aircraft, or an aircraft and a vessel, are on crossing courses, the aircraft or vessel to the other's right has the right-of-way.

(c) Approaching head-on. When aircraft, or an aircraft and a vessel, are approaching head-on, or nearly so, each shall alter its course to the right to keep well clear.

(d) Overtaking. Each aircraft or vessel that is being overtaken has the right-of-way, and the one overtaking shall alter course to keep well clear.
(e) Special circumstances. When aircraft, or an aircraft and a vessel, approach so as to involve risk of collision, each aircraft or vessel shall proceed with careful regard to existing circumstances, including the limitations of the respective craft.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, there are controlled airspaces where aircraft and boats might share the same water. Boston, for instance, where the Class Bravo covers the harbor.
Click to expand...
That is not a thing. The class bravo is ATC's purview when airborne, but the boats are not. ATC is not boat traffic control.
 
digger242j

digger242j

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skyking1 said:
ATC is not boat traffic control.
Click to expand...

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that. Sorry for being unclear on that. But a floatplane taking off from the water needs to get clearance from the tower, because the innermost ring of the Bravo airspace goes all the way to the surface.

The pilot is the one responsible for not hitting the boats. The ATC phraseology is something like "Are you able to depart on a heading of (XXX) and maintain your own obstacle and obstruction clearance?"
 
Truck Shop

Truck Shop

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I find that a little strange because a boat can turn and divert quicker than a plane-but I realize the guy piloting the boat is working with other factors.
Like he has probably slammed a six pack or two.
 
skyking1

skyking1

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digger242j said:
Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that. Sorry for being unclear on that. But a floatplane taking off from the water needs to get clearance from the tower, because the innermost ring of the Bravo airspace goes all the way to the surface.

The pilot is the one responsible for not hitting the boats. The ATC phraseology is something like "Are you able to depart on a heading of (XXX) and maintain your own obstacle and obstruction clearance?"
Click to expand...
I'm a commercial instrument pilot.
The catchall for everything I mentioned above. "see and avoid".
Once you are out of mast height the heading instruction becomes a non-issue, and ATC really doesn't care as long as you don't bust the ceiling the set for you within the Class B.
It's more like "Cessna 9506X, squawk 5432, cleared for the east sound departure at or below XXXX feet, contact departure control on 132.4" The departure would be a published procedure.
That altitude is the thing. if you bust XXXX then you are now messing with the big boys. They carve out spaces within the B for VFR ops.
In Seattle, we did the Vashon Transition @1500 right across the arrival runway numbers at Sea-Tac. It was the safest place to be. Landing planes passed well below and aircraft taking off were also safely separated. It made sense to get GA aircraft across quickly, rather than all these east and west bound planes getting wedged into bottlenecks below the first layer of cake and the next chunk of controlled airspace north and south. Those were dangerous places, not enough room for proper VFR altitude separation.
 
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skyking1

skyking1

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Truck Shop said:
I find that a little strange because a boat can turn and divert quicker than a plane-but I realize the guy piloting the boat is working with other factors.
Like he has probably slammed a six pack or two.
Click to expand...
The boaters operate in two dimensions. Often they never see us as we pass over with the throttle pulled back to idle to land beyond them.
 
W

Welder Dave

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Knew some guys that were on Jet Ski's on a lake close to my property. A major forest fire went through and there were 4 Air Tractors scooping water off the lake. Everybody on the lake got out of the way. I was watering things down and could wave to the pilots as they were less than 200ft. altitude. I think they were low to stay under the smoke. Pretty cool though seeing the full roll cage in a plane. There were a couple larger water bombers dropping foam and a small plane circling that I believe was the guide plane that instructed all the planes where to go. Who would be at fault if there were an accident on the lake in an emergency situation like this?

Air Tractor | Aircraft
 
John C.

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Not much ATC in Alaska in a float plane once you get past the airports. Seems to be a lot less issue with boats on take off and landing. I've flown south out of Ketchikan once or twice where the water is shared with everything from a row boat to a luxury cruise ship. The float planes just seem to squeeze in wherever possible.
 
B

Birken Vogt

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They don't use water scoopers here much, not enough open water and does not really do what is needed (build permanent line which is what chemical retardant does) but when on a fire, you can get anything you need, if it make sense.

So if vessel traffic was a big problem they would probably get the sheriff and/or state parks to send boats out onto the lake and close off a lane of some kind for aircraft to use.

In reality, air ops are so fleeting that it would seldom be worthwhile to go to all this trouble. Fires move on to other locations, die down on their own, smoke makes it too dangerous to fly, or the aircraft is needed on some other fire.

Aircraft are expensive to run, and there are not many to go around, so they are prioritized to new fires to try to keep them small. This means they bounce all over the state or country in the course of a day.

Welder Dave said:
Knew some guys that were on Jet Ski's on a lake close to my property. A major forest fire went through and there were 4 Air Tractors scooping water off the lake. Everybody on the lake got out of the way. I was watering things down and could wave to the pilots as they were less than 200ft. altitude. I think they were low to stay under the smoke. Pretty cool though seeing the full roll cage in a plane. There were a couple larger water bombers dropping foam and a small plane circling that I believe was the guide plane that instructed all the planes where to go. Who would be at fault if there were an accident on the lake in an emergency situation like this?
Click to expand...
 
skyking1

skyking1

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The FAA creates TFRs (temporary flight restrictions) for firefighting operations, to keep planes from either wandering through or lookie-lou checking out the fires.
it is the same for presidential visits.
 
Cmark

Cmark

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This showed up on FB today.

190205951_4186886578024698_1123262546824199211_n.jpg
 
T

Tarhe Driver

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[QUOTE="skyking1, post:
In Seattle, we did the Vashon Transition @1500 right across the arrival runway numbers at Sea-Tac. It was the safest place to be. Landing planes passed well below and aircraft taking off were also safely separated. It made sense to get GA aircraft across quickly, rather than all these east and west bound planes getting wedged into bottlenecks below the first layer of cake and the next chunk of controlled airspace north and south. Those were dangerous places, not enough room for proper VFR altitude separation.[/QUOTE]

We routinely flew Flying Cranes north-south across Atlanta's (ATL) east-west runways while talking only with ATL ground. Assume the unit's still doing that with Chinooks.
 
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